Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Doodly]

I think it's ridiculous to make a student stand in the hallway or another part of the room during the class. It would be much better to make them spend their recess(es) or break after lunch in the room. Last week, I told two girls to come to my room after lunch. My co-teacher was in the room ahead of me when they arrived early and told them they didn't have to wait for me. I met them in the hall on my way to the classroom and brought them back to sit in their seats for awhile. It's not like he can't play on his computer while they sit there, but he's too lazy. I don't mind doing it on my own, but the lack of support even when this method has proven itself each time I've used it is bad. It's just laziness. Much quicker and takes no time outside of class to hit a student or make them stand in a stupid pose that never results in change. Usually only the boys are punished too.

The other reason that they won't have a detention system is "wanta" or whatever. They think the kid will be ostracized if they're picked out by the teacher. I think this is just a lame excuse really.

[crazylemongirl]

[schwa]

Thanks for saying, deubbel. I agree wholeheartedly.

I also teach in a boys middleschool. We have fun productive classes & I havent had need to discipline a student this year. Not claiming I'm a perfect teacher -- far from it! -- our classes are often noisy & theres always a few students not tuned in. But the mood is consistently positive.

I take some pride in having won over the worst "problem" class this year that the K-teachers (all subjects) had given up on. Its one of my favorites now.

If I had a class spinning out of control I'd be taking a hard look at why my lessons or presentation were failing to engage the students.

[Dan The Chainsawman]

I won't completely disagree with the last poster. Good points are made about kids being put in the wrong level, or the teacher sucking monkey nuts. I have my problem classes, and while I hammer at them with negative consquences for a bit, I try to make sure they all know it is never personal. Behave well and you are going to benifit, but be a jack off and you will pay the price with your whole class.

Does it work? Most of the time it takes a few weeks to really reinforce the point. It does not always work though, but that is a matter of being flexible. If one approach is not working adapt with the situation, and try something new.

I personally try to make it a point to let the real pain in the butt kids know that I have no beef with them. After class I shake their hands, give them a pat on the head, or rough house with them in the hall. Remarkablely this lack of being able to frustrate the teacher or fluster him beyond the limits of his sanity seems to get them to step to pretty quickly.

I keep punishments as only as long as it takes for the class to calm down and be quiet. If it takes 15 seconds then that is all they stand up for with their hands up. However, I do have a couple classes who have spent 5 to 10 minutes at a time with hands up looking at each other wanting to wail on the problem cases. If it goes on to long the good kids are told to sit down. This motivates the bad kids to shut up quicker.

I only use positive reinforcement after class. I hate bribing kids in class with candy. It may get short term results, but in the long term you are turning the kid into a total turnip.

Last we can not pick our classes for the most part. We get stuck with a collection of kids who do not know their butts from a hole in the ground, and we just need to make the best of it. Whatever you do be consistent about it, and learn to try to have fun with them. Once a kid realizes they can push teacher's buttons you might as well go out back and bury yourself alive, cause if you don't the kids will do it for you.

[joe_doufu]

ddeubel, the kids that cause trouble, at least in my hagwon's case, are seeking attention. Often their mothers give them eight pounds of candy after school every day and they come in with a sugar high. These are kids who, once disciplined for one offense, will do something else as soon as the teacher returns to the board. If I play the student's game I'll be running back and forth to his desk all class period long.

Yes in an ideal world there would be somebody to coddle and pacify this 13-year-old boy for the whole 40 minutes but in a classroom, it's unfair to the others to waste the entire period playing this game. Any of the punishments listed above would only be distracting, exactly what we don't want. So, the student is sent outside so that all the others can get the learning they pay for. I try to make it clear to the children that it's not a "punishment" taken to get revenge for something the kid did wrong, I simply need a quiet classroom to teach in, and he can come back inside when he's willing to be quiet.

[Demonicat]

I mentioned my negative reinforcement methods before as that fit the topic more at the time. On an everyday control method i prefer the old school system of Lowest Denominator: the class moves with the slowest student. The slowest student is 99/100 the slowest because he goofs off. By placing the others at the treacherous peril of boredom, he then suffers a kids worst enemy- peer pressure. Admittedly, this does not work with all kids.

Curiosity: What ages do people teach? I wonder if this changes the positive/negative reinforcement ratio. I teach primary and a police state is sometimes required.

[chiaa]

If the boys that are giving you trouble are on the hefty side, make them do stairs.

Not only do they get "punished" but they burn some calories as well.

[itaewonguy]

arhh yes the ole what should I do to control my kids thread..

basically its HAKWON vs Public school..
its mothers money VS governments money!!

if you are working hakwon there is not much you can do.. but have a real great high tollerance for them,,, if its public school you can beat them!!
you can throw books at their heads, smash their heads with books do what ever you please.. if you are KOREAN!!!

it all comes down the wonjongnim policies.. if his only motivation is money
then im sure he will not allow anything bad .. if he is serious about education then he will have a punishment system in place which the parents know about then go for it.. many parents like this if they are informed about it.. they call it.. SPARTAN style.. many mothers love it!

[joe_doufu]

[ddeubel]

Joe,

I do think I overstated my case ....... (a bad habit). Of course I think that there is some behaviour that is over the top and that students have to conform to the "norms" of the class. These norms should be clear to all and constantly reminded of.........

Feel for you. I live in an officetel where there is a hagwon . I have to wade through the crowd of sugar high kids screaming and running, just to get to my apartment every afternoon! That said, I do think a kids classroom and quiet are opposites. And yes, totally agree......make them happy, they should come to your class to "be happy"........ever see the Japanese documentary "Children full of joy", about a year in a grade 4 classroom? The teacher there believes that only when a kid is truly happy can they "learn"......he has them constantly reminded that they come to school to "be happy"...great doc....

Cheers,
DD

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[Francis-Pax]

I do think that sending a kid in the hall for 20 days is excessive. And, in that case, I agree with the administrators of the school.

I can understand one day, maybe even two days, and in exceptional casses perhaps even four or five days, but twenty days? C'mon!

[crazylemongirl]

[jaderedux]

I also work in a middle school. Boys. I love them and have been at this school for 4 years. I have taught some of the boys brothers. I know the mothers and have been through 2 principals and 2 vice principals.

My classes are based on their book. I have 5 to 6 questions on every single final. This insures some relevence. Questions are all in English and I write them. I give two speaking tests a year to each grade.

I have good support from the administration and my Co-teachers...that being said I am the meanest M.F. on the block too. I carry a stick have never had to use it but the threat is there. I have a death stare that will drop a grown man at 20 paces. (This is thanks to having 4 brothers) They can do nothing that surprises me.

My classes are fun until they are not fun. I will not tolerate crap. I would say 90% of my students are a joy to teach. We laugh, have fun talk about everything under the sun from wrestling to dating. I teach to that 90%. Some of that 90% are damn near advanced speakers, some are average and some struggle but we take the trip together. I protect them from the b.s. of the other 10% whose sole purpose in life is to make EVERY TEACHER'S LIFE HELL. I make sure those boys who struggle to get a C are protected from these hellions. I make sure they are encouraged and praised and feel like they are in an atmosphere that nurtures them too.

But some kids just won't do anything that resembles studying or learning. They can sit vacant eyed and quiet. I care not. But THEY DO NOT DISRUPT MY CLASS AND THEY KNOW IT. They don't sleep and they don't talk. If they do either they often end up wet (water gun for sleepers) and noisy boys get to clean my class room during breaks and/or kneel on the cold hard floor holding their chair above their heads. Hard to talk and make trouble doing this. Mind you the latter has not been used at all this year as it seems to be infamous.

Some of these deliquents are infamous throughout the school. I have one class that drew a disgusting picture of a woman on their classroom wall. The H.R. teacher is so afraid of them she didn't say anything. This class has been banned from my english room for bad behavior. I went to the classroom closed the door and asked them if they had mothers or sisters. Many smirked and raised their hands. I then went to the picture and said is this your mother? I this your sister.....DEAD SILENCE. The Captain of that class cleaned the wall and a few were damn near tears when I finished with them. They are not perfect and I am teaching to only about 75% of the class but it is up from almost none. If they continue to improve they will be allowed back in the English room.

I will NOT slow my classes to the lowest level. Like it or not so many of the those trouble makers are mean and no one dares cross them so all that clever "peer" pressure doesn't work.

They are wastoids and like it or not, not every kid is a delicate little blossom waiting for your ray of sunshine to bless them. I have turned a few difficult ones into good students but using tough love. I NEVER HOLD GRUDGES. You do the time for your crime, debt paid.

If are an a$$ head in one class but change your attitude the next you are welcomed with love, kindness and lots of crazy English. I love these kids and love teaching. I don't have them bringing me coffee nor do I look for a place to hide so I can smoke -- BTW EXTREMELY BAD EXAMPLE!

Everyday is amazing. While tiring, my desk is always a center for meeting students and chattering in all levels of English. They ask for help with homework and academy work. Some are now checking out some of the books we have in English. Some of the K-teachers are amazed at how hard they try to speak english. Walking down the street is hysterical. I spend half my time bowing back to students and students mothers.

I am happy the rest of you seem to have perfect classes with students that walk quietly from class to class and wait on you hand and foot. Mine aren't but last two out three years my boys placed in a speech contest. We have the highest number of students attending foreign language high schools in the city. ( I DO NOT TAKE MUCH CREDIT FOR THAT). My boys are loud struggle with teen angst, surly but all in all I would not trade this gig for anything.

Boys from 2 and 3 years ago still come and see me. So all in all even though I can be mean as a junk yard dog I seem to have found a niche of success. Don't be to quick to judge until you have worked in our shoes.

AND STOP SMOKING AT SCHOOL. <<<<----(sponsered by the reformed smoker)

Jade tired but happy

[joe_doufu]

I try to treat my students like adults. Like customers. It's not my job to mold their behavior, it's my job to deliver English lessons. That's why I don't like to "punish"... who am I to say that their behavior (=being Korean) is right or wrong? I eject them from the classroom if they are preventing me from teaching, not to change their behavior, just to enable myself to teach the cooperative students.