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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Your students aren't your friends. Nor do you get to choose them as opposed to your friends. You can't really equate the two.
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Ummm...I don't really agree with this. Granted I'm not talking about ALL students. When I was teaching high school before coming here, I was in a small high school. In the three years a student was in the school, a certain number took all 4 or 5 of my classes.
In that time we got to know each other pretty well. (In fact I've married people I haven't known as well.) I invest a lot of emotional energy in my students. They aren't the same as 'friends friends' but they are more than just teacher-student relationships (if by that you mean the teacher caring some about the success and progress of all the students in the class).
Anyway, my point is people should lighten up and be more friendly...and not wait for the other person to initiate a conversation. At least smile, folks. Make yourself seem approachable. Even Ted Bundy knew how to smile. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
This thread is starting to remind me of a group of 3~4 (foreign) friends who come to my parties and always sit at the small table off in the corner of the kitchen, EVERY time. Always the same people, always the same small cramped table -- while everyone else is mixing and moving around the house -- and they will inevitably get onto some... inconsequential issue (really, this "do you say hello or not?" discussion would be SO right up their alley  ) and just beat it and kick it to death. I mean they go on for HOURS, only getting up for potty breaks and then coming right back. Other people will be going in and out of the kitchen to fetch things all night, and that group won't have even shifted their chairs. |
 I think you may have a point there. Very well put, by the way. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| if you had read my post instead of going off on your angry rant |
I'm not angry Urban, not even nearly mate; it's been years now, I feel like I know you, and I am just very curious as to why you've always banged that drum. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Sure there are a number of decent foreigners in Korea. But they are much in the minority. To use an example here: Of all the foreigners you know (friends and first name acquaintances) how many would you completely trust with an envelope containing YOUR last months' pay, severance pay and pension back pay (around 5 million won)? Say for whatever reason you gave it to one of them to hold on for you, how many do you think wouldn't just take off with it? And in this scenario you are leaving Korea tomorrow for good. |
Wangja! Wangja gets my money. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: |
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"They're only going to be here a short time, they'll be gone tomorrow. Why bother?".
Its easy to see why koreans have this attitude to us. And why we have the same view of eachother.
And people do behave accordingly. ie...in a generally selfish/ self centred way. |
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skookum
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| This is all irrelevant to me - I haven't seen a foreigner in Jeomchon since last summer (except for my sweetie). No, someone did visit me from America in September. But otherwise, I just don't see oeguk saram around here. (I HAVE been to other places and seen and even talked to these pale rarities.) But this is a way different Korea than that experienced by many of the foreigners in this country. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| I don't believe the majority of foreigners working here are freaks, but I do believe the majority of freak foreigners are in Seoul. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| I don't believe the majority of foreigners working here are freaks, but I do believe the majority of freak foreigners are in Seoul. |
Seoul has more Westerners than other areas, so it stands to reason that most freaky ones would also live in Seoul. But I wouldn't say the proportion of freaky ones is higher here than elsewhere. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I seldom see foreigners too. Once a month or so at kotesol meetings but thats often it.
Funny, if I spot one on the street now I'm curious & try not to stare.
But I always say hi if a natural opportunity presents. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| I don't believe the majority of foreigners working here are freaks, but I do believe the majority of freak foreigners are in Seoul. |
Seoul has more Westerners than other areas, so it stands to reason that most freaky ones would also live in Seoul. But I wouldn't say the proportion of freaky ones is higher here than elsewhere. |
No, I don't think that's true.
I also think the majority of illegals are in Seoul as well. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone find this?
Koreans won't get involved with you because you will leave one day. "You're going to leave in a year, so I'm neither going to be your close friend, girlfriend, or annything. Because one day you'll leave".
Thats the attitude. Instead of enjoying the moment or taking a chance, they don't embark on anything that has even the tiniest chance of failure. But in reality, who knows what will happen? If you like someone, just go out with them! Maybe they will stay if things go well!
They weigh up probabilities and chances too much, too far into the future. They have no "letting go" nechanism. Thats one of my observations of Koreans. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| I don't believe the majority of foreigners working here are freaks, but I do believe the majority of freak foreigners are in Seoul. |
Seoul has more Westerners than other areas, so it stands to reason that most freaky ones would also live in Seoul. But I wouldn't say the proportion of freaky ones is higher here than elsewhere. |
No, I don't think that's true.
I also think the majority of illegals are in Seoul as well. |
MOS, you keep saying "the majority", and who's going to dispute that? Simple, blind statistics would agree with you. If a majority of foreigners in any country live in Region or City X, then Region or City X is going have the majority of every type of foreigner -- freak, wack-nut, mouth-breather, genius, legal, illegal, left-handed, saxophone-playing, you name it. You're not saying anything that we wouldn't have already guessed on our own, are you?  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But like I said before, I consider the illegal teachers here freaks as well. Kind of abnormal (freaky) to forge credentials to come and work in a foreign country. And since there are (by the numbers given on this board) more illegal teachers than legals, I would say that yes "most" foreigners are freaks. |
...So, how big is this net now, the one called "Foreigners in Korea"? Am I in it too, though I don't teach? How about the rest of us 100,000+ foreigners here who also aren't English teachers? |
Well generally when most people (including myself) say "foreigners" on this board, we mean foreign teachers as could be seen in the above posts. Come now Mr. JongnoGuru you should know this by now. But yes valid point. I'll try and say "teachers" if it makes you feel better.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| if you had read my post instead of going off on your angry rant |
I'm not angry Urban, not even nearly mate; it's been years now, I feel like I know you, and I am just very curious as to why you've always banged that drum. |
Okay, my bad, it just sounded like you were majorly PO'ed. Guess that's the problem with a message board
As to why I've "always banged the drum", it's not like most of my posts even deal with this. But yes due to my personal experiences and from what I've heard and read of others's experiences + the illegals that's why I feel the way I do. And I don't think nearly enough attention is paid to this.
How do you expect us to be taken seriously when illegals and teachers who do privates are more or less winked at on this board and most others? Sure there's some complaining about illegals but most people say that they don't either care or wouldn't turn them in. Then those same people complain about the Koreans not taking them seriously and all the new restrictions.
Well maybe if we'd policed ourselves more seriously, we wouldn't be having to deal with all this immigration red tape. Just a thought.
One can't really blame the Koreans for wanting to clear at least some of the 'deadwood' away. We'd feel the same were the situation reversed. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
Does anyone find this?
Koreans won't get involved with you because you will leave one day. "You're going to leave in a year, so I'm neither going to be your close friend, girlfriend, or annything. Because one day you'll leave".
Thats the attitude. Instead of enjoying the moment or taking a chance, they don't embark on anything that has even the tiniest chance of failure. But in reality, who knows what will happen? If you like someone, just go out with them! Maybe they will stay if things go well!
They weigh up probabilities and chances too much, too far into the future. They have no "letting go" mechanism. Thats one of my observations of Koreans. |
Rapier, first let's separate these Koreans into (1) those with whom you're (we're) looking at as prospective friends, and (2) those you (we) are romantically interested in, and then look at the question from those two perspectives.
1) That's going to be true up to a point for some Koreans. But I'd bet that, by and large, it's got less to do with your perceived transience than your undeniable foreignness. And not only do we look so bloody different, we're not very good Korean speakers, we're not from their hometown, we didn't go to high school with them or any of the other things that define "real friends" for most Koreans.
And this perception of all/most foreigners being transient and that being a major turn-off for Koreans and other foreigners as well... That's still mostly valid, but it's becoming less and less true, and Koreans know that. This country today is long-term home to more whiteys, brownies, blackies and yellowies -- men and (gasp!) women -- than ever before. They just keep coming and coming, and so many of them just won't leave. Long gone are the halcyon days when you could squeeze a significant percentage of Korea's resident "old hands" into three (or even two!) tables at a small restaurant a block away from Jongno District Office on a Friday night.
2) I think Koreans (and here I mean girls specifically) would rightly view a relationship with a foreigner as being fraught with peril. They're not put off by "tiny" chances of failure, but the high likelihood of it. What's so odd about that? |
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