Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Bulsajo]

Once againThe Economist proves itself the best news magazine, bar none.



Excellent editorial, but you'll have to buy it at the bookstore or subscribe to the premium online content to see the whole thing.

I'm going to type a few paragraphs that really struck me as concise and compelling, from the middle of the article (all typos and spelling mistakes are mine):

"Every reasonable person should be able to agree on two things about America's presence in Iraq. First, if the Iraqi government formally asks the troops to leave, they should do so. Second, the argument about whether America should quit Iraq is not the same as the one about whether it should have gone there in the first place. It must be about the future.

That said, the catalogue of failures thus far does raise serious questions about the administration's ability to make Iraq work- ever. Mr. Bush's team mis-sold the war, neglected post-invasion planning, has never committed enough troops to the task and has taken a cavalier attitude to human rights. Abu Ghraib, a place of unspeakable suffering under Mr. Hussein, will go into the history books as a symbol of American shame. The awful irony is that the specious link which the administration claimed existed between Iraq and al-Qaeda in order to justify going to war now exists.

Two and a half years after Mr. Bush stood beneath a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished", the insurgency is as strong as ever. More than 2000 Americans, some 3600 Iraqi troops, perhaps 30,000 Iraqi civilians and an unknown number of insurgents have lost their lives, and conditions of life for the "liberated" remain woeful. All this makes Mr. Bush's refusal to sack the people responsible for this mess, especially his defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, alarming.

But disappointment, even on this scale, does not justify a precipitate withdrawal. There are strong positive and negative reasons for America to see through what it started."

The analysis is summarized:
"The cost ot America of staying in Iraq may be high, but the cost of retreat would be higher. By fleeing, America would not buy itself peace."

and the conclusion:
"If such reasoning sounds negative- America must stay because the consequences of leaving would be too awful- treat that as a sad reflection of how Mr. Bush's vision for the Middle East has soured. The road ahead looks bloody and costly. But this is not the time to retreat."

I left out the details of the analysis but they're the guts of the piece and really should be read.

[Ya-ta Boy]

I'd be more amenable to listening to arguments for staying longer if the British, Japanese and Koreans weren't all talking about getting out and if some other countries were talking about shouldering some of the burden.

[Wangja]

[VanIslander]

The Economist knows big business and oil money is at stake in Iraq. It's all about $$$.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[Wangja]

[rok_the-boat]

I was against the war before it started and could clearly see between the fabricated arguments. However, once British soldiers were commited, being British, so was I. I might not like the war, but if you fight one, there is nothing you can do but fight to win the best deal you can. No one wants to get their ass kicked and have to run away.

[riley]

I knew this war was pure foolishness before we went in. The reasons given were bullshit pure and simple.
Now that we are in Iraq, I feel we have to stay. Not because we would look like losers but because hopefully we can help make it better. ( I too subscribe to the "You break it, You pay for it" philosophy) The problem is, as Ya-Ta boy said, we have made so many mistakes. Our government has acted like arrogant fools (something that has happened many times in American foriegn policy) by not doing any research and relying on assumptions instead. (Iraqis will welcome us with open arms)
But staying and fixing our mistakes goes against a fundamental problem of democracy. When we listen to the people, the choices created and decided upon by the people tend to be simple and short term, ie cut'n'run. This is only an answer for stopping American soldiers from being shot and killed today but it won't stop it from happening 1 year from now because our work has created a blistering boil in the Middle East. The politicians can't explain to the voters that problem because it takes too much effort to get the message across. Democracy relies on the lowest common denominator (the loudest, simplest message) to have something happen.
On a seperate tangent, it's interesting how often the military is more cautious than the politicians.

[bucheon bum]

[Ya-ta Boy]

[Bulsajo]

[Bulsajo]

[EFLtrainer]

I must disagree with the Economist, I think. I say "I think" only because I know none of the datails of the article. However, most arguments against a (relatively) quick pullout seem to ignore one very fundamental fact: We are what the insurgency is aimed at. We (the USA) are the target, but the insurgency also directly targets Iraqis in an attempt to turn them against the "coalition." They use war with us, terror with their own people, but to get the same result.

Get us out, they have no justification. If they continued their campaign after we left, you'd see much the same reaction as we recently saw in Jordan. If you accept this argument, then it bcomes obvious that the readiness of the Iraqi military is irrelevant.

Get out. The faster the better.

[EFLtrainer]

I must disagree with the Economist, I think. I say "I think" only because I know none of the datails of the article. However, most arguments against a (relatively) quick pullout seem to ignore one very fundamental fact: We are what the insurgency is aimed at. We (the USA) are the target, but the insurgency also directly targets Iraqis in an attempt to turn them against the "coalition." They use war with us, terror with their own people, but to get the same result.

Get us out, they have no justification. If they continued their campaign after we left, you'd see much the same reaction as we recently saw in Jordan. If you accept this argument, then it bcomes obvious that the readiness of the Iraqi military is irrelevant.

Add to that the incompetence of the current administration and the virtual given that whatever they do in the future will only make things worse, well....

Get out. The faster the better.

[Kuros]