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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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 Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Wow! A whole week has gone by and you still have nothing constructive to contribute to an adult conversation, do you?
Oh well. Maybe next weekend. |
Challenging your assumptions is constructive. Now grow up. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| hypnotist wrote: |
| I still find it amusing to have to defend the concept of immigration on a board for ex-pats. |
99.9% of the people on this board are not immigrants. The temporary stay of the expats on this board is irrelevant to the issue of immigration. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| hypnotist wrote: |
| I still find it amusing to have to defend the concept of immigration on a board for ex-pats. |
99.9% of the people on this board are not immigrants. The temporary stay of the expats on this board is irrelevant to the issue of immigration. |
We may not be migrants in the strictest sense, but we are still foreigners living in another country so in the broadest sense I would argue it is relevant. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| We may not be migrants in the strictest sense, but we are still foreigners living in another country so in the broadest sense I would argue it is relevant. |
Most foreigners here are on a glorified holiday. The rest rarely receive citizenship, and eventually return home, or move to other countries elsewhere in Asia. They don't impinge on Korea's level of homogeneity, or culture either. Immigrants in the west become citizens, rapidly alter the level of homogeneity, give birth to children who automatically become citizens, and in many cases spend their entire lifes living in their adopted country. The impact of mass immigration in the west, and the impact of a tiny expat community working temporarily in Korea is not even remotely analogous. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| jaganath69 wrote: |
| We may not be migrants in the strictest sense, but we are still foreigners living in another country so in the broadest sense I would argue it is relevant. |
Most foreigners here are on a glorified holiday. The rest rarely receive citizenship, and eventually return home, or move to other countries elsewhere in Asia. They don't impinge on Korea's level of homogeneity, or culture either. Immigrants in the west become citizens, rapidly alter the level of homogeneity, give birth to children who automatically become citizens, and in many cases spend their entire lifes living in their adopted country. The impact of mass immigration in the west, and the impact of a tiny expat community working temporarily in Korea is not even remotely analogous. |
Yeah its funny to hear Koreans say Korea is "cosmopolitain-full of many foreigners" sometimes. When, clearly 99% of them are temporary visitors/migrant workers. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| In the interests of balance, would you care to mention any hate crimes commited by whites recently, such as the cousin of Everton footballer Joey Barton who killed himself a "*beep*"? |
But that's the point isn't it? When it comes to racially motivated attacks, there is no balance. How else do you explain why the Anthony Walker case caused such a media stir, whereas this received hardly any coverage at all. Why are there 50 related news stories on the Anthony Walker case, and only 1 for Mr. Yates? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Back on the topic of the lack of balance in the media in regards to racially motivated crime. If you follow media reporting about race you would assume that the majority of racist incidents were white on black. This is not only due to the media bias when reporting racial crime, as demonstrated in the Anthony Walker case, but due to the ethnic makeup of Britain.
The UK is around 90% white, with 10% ethnic minorities. If we were to assume that all groups are equally racist, then we could expect around 90% of racially motivated crime to be white on black crime. In fact, the reverse is true, although this fact is almost never reported. Even the Police Crime Reduction website, which reveals these shocking figures does its best not to draw attention to this fact. It takes a bit of calculating by the reader to work out the figures for himself.
Here is the first figure
Estimates from the British Crime Survey (2000) http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html indicate that the number of incidents, which were considered by the victim to be racially motivated, fell from 382,000 in 1995 to 280,000 in 1999 (down 27%).
The British Crime Survey (2000) http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html found that the number of racially motivated incidents committed against ethnic minorities fell from 143,000 in 1995 to 98,000 in 1999 (down 32%).
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/toolkits/rh0208.htm
Let's take the 1999 figure. The total number of incidents considered to be racially motivated was 280,000. Of those 280,000 incidents, 98,000 were committed against ethnic minorities. However, the report does not then go on to say, perhaps because it is a little too taboo, that the remaining 182,000 racially motivated incidents were committed against whites. So, in 1999, 65% of all racially motivated crimes were committed against whites, and 35% percent were committed against minorities. In fact, the percentage of racially motivated crimes committed against whites has increased, from 62% in 1995 to 65% in 1999.
I have been unable to find recent figures, but I very much doubt that they would have changed greatly in just 5 years. So, we have a situation where 9% of the population is committing over 60% of the racially motivated incidents. You would never know that from the media portrayal of racial crime. Perhaps some of the liberals on here would care to explain the fact the ethnic minorities are 6 times more likely than whites to commit racist offences. Personally, I blame years of liberal education and media coverage which has created the perception, in the minds of minorities, that the white man is responsible for all their ills, and that racism is keeping them down. |
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hypnotist
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
The UK is around 90% white, with 10% ethnic minorities. If we were to assume that all groups are equally racist, then we could expect around 90% of racially motivated crime to be white on black crime. In fact, the reverse is true, although this fact is almost never reported. Even the Police Crime Reduction website, which reveals these shocking figures does its best not to draw attention to this fact. It takes a bit of calculating by the reader to work out the figures for himself.
[...]
So, in 1999, 65% of all racially motivated crimes were committed against whites, and 35% percent were committed against minorities. In fact, the percentage of racially motivated crimes committed against whites has increased, from 62% in 1995 to 65% in 1999. |
This is true, but you seem to have lost sight of the fact that whites massively outnumber ethnic minorities in the UK - the upshot being that 12% of crime against ethnic minorities was racially motivated whereas only somewhere between 1 and 2% of crime against whites were - and while the chance of a white person falling victim to a racist crime is thus tiny, the same is not true for ethnic minorities. By my very rough back-of-the-matchbox calculations an ethnic minority person has a 2% chance of being the victim of a racially motivated attack whereas the chance for a white person is 0.4%. Perhaps that is the difference.
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| I have been unable to find recent figures, but I very much doubt that they would have changed greatly in just 5 years. So, we have a situation where 9% of the population is committing over 60% of the racially motivated incidents. You would never know that from the media portrayal of racial crime. Perhaps some of the liberals on here would care to explain the fact the ethnic minorities are 6 times more likely than whites to commit racist offences. |
Well, given they're far more likely to fall victim to racist attacks, plus the institutional racism and general community problems of education and so on, I don't think it's that surprising. Sadly. It's widely accepted that crime increases as social inequality increases (I'm not going to touch on causality here, but correlation can hardly be denied), and the black community in particular is disadvantaged compared to the country as a whole.
(It might be worth pointing out that, if you looked at the figures and ignored race completely, you'd almost certainly find out that well under 1% of the population commits 95%+ of racially motivated crime - it's not an everyday activity for either whites or blacks).
It's also worth noting that there is evidence for both under-reporting and under-recording of racial motivation for crime.
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| Personally, I blame years of liberal education and media coverage which has created the perception, in the minds of minorities, that the white man is responsible for all their ills, and that racism is keeping them down. |
Well, you would, wouldn't you?  (Out of interest, have you ever actually heard this view expressed in conversation with people from ethnic minorities? I've seen it on TV but never heard it myself.) Whether this is true or not, the irrefutable facts are that institutional racism does exist in the UK and it is much harder for people from ethnic minorities to get jobs*, and that individuals from ethnic minorities are far more likely to suffer from racially motivated crime than white individuals. I think, for that reason, the media focus is fair. The issue of why more crime is caused by the black community in general (and why the black population of our prisons is so out of proportion) is a completely different issue - and one that is, I'll concede, too often neglected.
* http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3885213.stm and similar |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Estimates from the British Crime Survey (2000) http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html indicate that the number of incidents, which were considered by the victim to be racially motivated, fell from 382,000 in 1995 to 280,000 in 1999 (down 27%).
The British Crime Survey (2000) http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html found that the number of racially motivated incidents committed against ethnic minorities fell from 143,000 in 1995 to 98,000 in 1999 (down 32%).
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Did you notice a bit of a difference between those two studies? I'll give you a hint, which were considered by the victim to be racially motivated. What are the criteria for the second report for a crime to be found to be racially motivated? The disparity does not necessarily show a difference between crimes committed by whites compared to crimes committed by minorities, but rather crimes that were truly based on race and crimes that | | |
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