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| Will the plane take off? |
| Yes it will |
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38% |
[ 10 ] |
| No it wont |
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61% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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| Author |
Message |
eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| hypnotist wrote: |
| ...when Pligganease had his* Damascusian conversion. The conveyor can't stop the plane moving forward. |
I'll admit it when I'm wrong...   |
Don't worry Pligganease. This was a hypothetical situation outside of the laymans experience of this type of thing.
I was a totally firm 'it won't take off' until I read the pilots forum thread. As you can see from my later post I wasn't so sure.
It's a learning thing. It's like teaching Koreans English. Your students are not supposed to be experts. They're learning.
In saying that.......I'm still not so sure!!!
What's for sure is that this was a nut-scratcher of the highest order. Due to the fact it's not a real-life situation. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:50 am Post subject: |
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That's right. This was just a little fun & games for everyone. Nobody takes it seriously. 
Now then, will the 14 posters those who voted "No it won't" please assemble in the courtyard tomorrow at 7 o'clock. And be sharp about it; the firing squad have another appointment later in the morning at the "Will it Float?" thread. |
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Antmore
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Even if the wheels of the aircraft were attached in such a way that the speed of the aircraft with respect to the ground was zero, the speed of the air over the wings would be non zero, because the air speed would be zero with respect to the conveyor at the surface of the conveyor belt, and thus moving backwards there at the same speed as the conveyor with respect to the ground. (assuming a no slip surface. If the conveyor isn't made out of something weird, this is reasonable.)
The speed of the air at the conveyor being the speed of the conveyor with respect to the ground, by continuity the speed of the air over the wings will be non zero, and negative, over the wings, with respect to the ground. Air speed with respect to the ground above the conveyor will go to zero as the height above the ground goes to infinity. Thus, in this case where the aircraft's wheels are not free wheeling but exert a horizontal force on the aircraft, whether the plane lifts off depends on if the engines of the aircraft are able to generate enough thrust in order to increase the conveyor belt to such a speed that the air speed over the wings is sufficient to generate enough lift to counteract the force of gravity. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Antmore wrote: |
Even if the wheels of the aircraft were attached in such a way that the speed of the aircraft with respect to the ground was zero, the speed of the air over the wings would be non zero, because the air speed would be zero with respect to the conveyor at the surface of the conveyor belt, and thus moving backwards there at the same speed as the conveyor with respect to the ground. (assuming a no slip surface. If the conveyor isn't made out of something weird, this is reasonable.)
The speed of the air at the conveyor being the speed of the conveyor with respect to the ground, by continuity the speed of the air over the wings will be non zero, and negative, over the wings, with respect to the ground. Air speed with respect to the ground above the conveyor will go to zero as the height above the ground goes to infinity. Thus, in this case where the aircraft's wheels are not free wheeling but exert a horizontal force on the aircraft, whether the plane lifts off depends on if the engines of the aircraft are able to generate enough thrust in order to increase the conveyor belt to such a speed that the air speed over the wings is sufficient to generate enough lift to counteract the force of gravity. |
So your answer is! |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| Antmore wrote: |
Even if the wheels of the aircraft were attached in such a way that the speed of the aircraft with respect to the ground was zero, the speed of the air over the wings would be non zero, because the air speed would be zero with respect to the conveyor at the surface of the conveyor belt, and thus moving backwards there at the same speed as the conveyor with respect to the ground. (assuming a no slip surface. If the conveyor isn't made out of something weird, this is reasonable.)
The speed of the air at the conveyor being the speed of the conveyor with respect to the ground, by continuity the speed of the air over the wings will be non zero, and negative, over the wings, with respect to the ground. Air speed with respect to the ground above the conveyor will go to zero as the height above the ground goes to infinity. Thus, in this case where the aircraft's wheels are not free wheeling but exert a horizontal force on the aircraft, whether the plane lifts off depends on if the engines of the aircraft are able to generate enough thrust in order to increase the conveyor belt to such a speed that the air speed over the wings is sufficient to generate enough lift to counteract the force of gravity. |
So your answer is! |
I think it's "Yes, it will" (fly).
(Either that or the firing squad will have to pack another bullet.) |
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Antmore
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So your answer is! |
It depends on the size of the conveyor belt and the power of the engines. At one extreme If the aircraft was a figher jet with engines able to generate far more force than was necessary to generate enough lift to take off under normal circumstances, and the conveyer belt was 100 times wider and 1000 times longer than the aircraft itself, I would say yes; at the other, where the aircraft was a large transport which struggled to take off under normal conditions and the conveyor belt had only just enough surface area so as to maintain contact with the wheels, no.
(again, please note that this is not the original case where the wheels were freewheeling.) |
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DirtySanchez
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: Neither here nor there
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Antmore wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So your answer is! |
It depends on the size of the conveyor belt and the power of the engines. At one extreme If the aircraft was a figher jet with engines able to generate far more force than was necessary to generate enough lift to take off under normal circumstances, and the conveyer belt was 100 times wider and 1000 times longer than the aircraft itself, I would say yes; at the other, where the aircraft was a large transport which struggled to take off under normal conditions and the conveyor belt had only just enough surface area so as to maintain contact with the wheels, no.
(again, please note that this is not the original case where the wheels were freewheeling.) |
Who cares what his answer is. Shoot him anyway.
Quit your jibber jabber! |
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Antmore
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Read it. It does make sense. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Antmore wrote: |
| Read it. It does make sense. |
Antmore -- we're going to have to shoot you anyway. The thread really had run its course and Sanchez' comment about "jibber jabber" was spot-on. Sorry.  |
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hypnotist
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Can I have the gun with the blank?  |
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Alan_Partridge
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: in the posh part of town
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Now...if the members of the firing squad were on a conveyor belt when they discharged their weapons, and if the belt was going at the exact same speed as the bullet (but in the other direction) would anybody actually get shot?
(One more bullet for over here please.) |
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