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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| And there was no bomb on that plane in Miami, and no one was ever in danger. |
We know that now. Presumably, the Marshall did not, and he took the only appropriate action he could.
Going on what we know, what do you think the Marshall should have done? |
He should have kept his gun in his pocket, from what we know now. This is very obvious.
In the past, I used to be nervous on airplanes only about take-offs and landings. Now, I'm going to be nervous about someone paid by my own govt who doesn't like the shape of my moustache or is thinking too hard about what is in my carry-on.
If you all think you are safer while traveling due to the War On Terror, I really do question your mental faculties. The guy died because he behaved in a way that someone with a govt cred decided looked wrong - oh, and he had a swarthy set of facial features and behaved in a way most of would think is suicidal ... and thankfully, I would never do or say what he did unless I really did want to die, but then, maybe they'd give me a pass because I have blue eyes and speak English with no accent.
The cop who shot the Brazilian man in the London tube station had less reason to shoot than the Air Marshall did. He was wrong also.
Can anyone provide an occasion when a suicide bomber was thwarted because someone shot him or her before the bomb went off? I'd like to know.
I stand by my earlier assessments. We are being ruled by our fear. This means that the terrorists have won.
We have to reclaim what they have taken from us, and it only takes an effort of will. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| He should have kept his gun in his pocket, from what we know now. This is very obvious. |
Sorry, I should have phrased it differently. On what the Air Marshall knew at the time (i.e he could have had a bomb), what should he have done?
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| If you all think you are safer while traveling due to the War On Terror, I really do question your mental faculties. |
We are not safer since 9-11, but Islamic fanatics with a penchant for killing infidels are to blame for that. What do you think?
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| We have to reclaim what they have taken from us, and it only takes an effort of will. |
So, the next time there is a security risk, the authorities should just stand by and say 'don't do anything boys, 'cos if you do, the terrorists win!'
Last edited by bigverne on Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chiaa
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And there was no bomb on that plane in Miami, and no one was ever in danger. |
We know that now. Presumably, the Marshall did not, and he took the only appropriate action he could.
Going on what we know, what do you think the Marshall should have done? |
He should have kept his gun in his pocket, from what we know now. This is very obvious.
In the past, I used to be nervous on airplanes only about take-offs and landings. Now, I'm going to be nervous about someone paid by my own govt who doesn't like the shape of my moustache or is thinking too hard about what is in my carry-on.
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The second stupidest thing I have heard on this board in a long time.
How the hell does the shape of your moustache equate to someone:
1. Yelling I have a bomb in my bag.
2. Reaching for the bomb in the bag against law enforcement orders.
I now realize why I never really venture over to the current events forum.
I saw better logic when I was teaching kindie classes.
EDIT: Changed my mind a second time...
Last edited by chiaa on Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| How the hell does the shape of your moustache equate to someone |
Don't bother arguing with The Bobster. His moral equivalence is beyond comprehension at times. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Apparently, the Bobster is in charge of airport security in New York.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1383832&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
Officials say a 50-year-old Egyptian man was stopped six days ago at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. Sources say he had a suspicious pair of shoes that tested positive five times for the explosive substance TATP on the interior of his shoes between the heel and sole.
Federal officials say the man's shoes are remarkably similar to those used by shoe bomber Richard Reid, who attempted to blow up an American Airlines jet over the Atlantic four years ago.
The Egyptian man's destination was Des Moines, Iowa, sources say, and he claimed he was a student at Iowa State University in Ames.
Strangely, after holding him overnight, airport security in New York released him. The FBI was notified after he was released. Now the FBI has put out a nationwide alert.
Remember folks, all we have to fear is fear itself. Don't worry Jihadists blowing up subways, planes and nightclubs. Really, it's nothing to worry about. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
Can anyone provide an occasion when a suicide bomber was thwarted because someone shot him or her before the bomb went off? I'd like to know.
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http://www.israelemb.org/articles/2002/March/2002031201.html
Israel Police Statement On March 8, 2002 Incident
(Communicated by the Israel Police National Foreign Press Spokesman)
March 12, 2002
On Friday, March 8, 2002, a suicide bomber on his way to perpetrate a terror attack in Jerusalem was apprehended by police while wearing a large explosive device on his chest and stomach area. He was held on the ground, face down, while a bomb disposal expert attempted to dismantle the explosive device. This lasted a number of minutes. During this time, the suicide bomber attempted several times to detonate the bomb by rubbing his chest against the ground in the hope of activating the detonation switch. In order to prevent the murder of the policemen and the bomb disposal officer, the suicide bomber was shot and killed by police. The bomb was dismantled with the aid of a bomb disposal robot.
The police have an investigative interest in apprehending suicide bombers alive in order to ascertain information that may assist in preventing further terrorist attacks, as witnessed a day earlier with the arrest of a suicide bomber in Jerusalem's Emek Refaim neighborhood.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=139238&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
Suicide bomber shot dead in north Jerusalem
A Palestinian carrying explosives was shot and killed by Border Police officers at around 4:30 P.M. Friday afternoon in the Beit Hanina neighborhood in north Jerusalem.
Security forces had launched a search in the area after receiving information that a terrorist had left from the West Bank city of Ramallah.
Border Police officers on patrol in Beit Hanina identified the suicide bomber and shot him dead as he was trying to detonate the explosives.
Police sappers defused the explosive device at the scene.
Last edited by Leslie Cheswyck on Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:41 am Post subject: |
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hmm bob...
so if you're on a plane and a man is running up and down the aisle saying "I HAVE A BOMB I HAVE A BOMB!" you expect nothing more than a polite "excuse me sir. Could you sit down please" from an elderly granma?
I'm no fan of high security but geez, there are some rules about flying.
1) At NO point in time, once NEAR the security gate or ticket counter do you even TALK about a bomb.
If someone is crazy enough to do that (even some kid pulling a joke) they take you outta the line up, ask you questions, rip your luggage apart and if your LUCKY you still catch your flight (happenned to an uncle and cousin years ago...)
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Can anyone provide an occasion when a suicide bomber was thwarted because someone shot him or her before the bomb went off? I'd like to know. |
I'm pretty sure it used to happen at border points in Israel quite often..non?
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| Now, I'm going to be nervous about someone paid by my own govt who doesn't like the shape of my moustache or is thinking too hard about what is in my carry-on. |
using silly example like this undermine not only YOUR argument but the arguments that intelligent people create in order to explain more appropriate arguments. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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 After reading your views, I can't believe the US government have already spent most of TSA's budget on airport screeners and security personel(43,000 of them!). They should have hired more sharp shooters instead. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Bobster, read the article. In both accounts it says they shot him. How can you say that's not what they did? You are hopeless.
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| During this time, the suicide bomber attempted several times to detonate the bomb by rubbing his chest against the ground in the hope of activating the detonation switch. In order to prevent the murder of the policemen and the bomb disposal officer, the suicide bomber was shot and killed by police. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: |
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I only skimmed over that article, and did not actually read the last sentence. I should not have posted it. Moving on...
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| Like I said, terrorists win when they make us so afraid we shoot ourselves in the foot. |
You keep repeating this cliche, yet have still not answered as to how the Marshall should have responded, taking into account that he did not know what we now know. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
hmm bob...
so if you're on a plane and a man is running up and down the aisle saying "I HAVE A BOMB I HAVE A BOMB!" you expect nothing more than a polite "excuse me sir. Could you sit down please" from an elderly granma? |
No, I think bob would probably prefer to have security agents sit down over a nice cappucino with each and every passenger from each and every flight to get to know them personally. That way they would know that if passenger X would run down the aisle screaming "I have a bomb!" security could say, "Oh, that kidder! I know him, there's no way he's capable of having a bomb. Just let him vent."
Whaddya think bob? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Isn't saying "I have a bomb in my bag" on an international flight or at an international airport simply an elaborate and showy form of suicide?
Spare us the trouble and choose one of the old-fashioned methods.
If you can afford an international flight, you can afford a 40 pounder of scotch and a bottle of sleeping pills. |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Anopther wacky thought: Maybe the guy felt airsick and wanted off the plane fast and the first thing he thought of was, "I have a bomb." to clear his path.
But aside from that, if you really did find a bomb in the storage compartment or under your seat, how would you announce it? Perhaps you should use your words carefully, bearing in mind that in a sudden dangerous situation, people do not necessarily hear what you actually say instead interpreting your entire message (fear, bodily actions, etc) - what they might 'hear' is, "I have a bomb!" So, if you found a bomb, or something you thought to be a bomb, how would you announce it? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Des, aren't you among the chorus who unload on someone whenever they generalize about a country, a people, etc? |
Yes, I guess my irony was not very clear on that one. It was exactly what I was a alluding to- the idea I see here oft repeated that Koreans are irrational and over-emotional.
I apologize for lack of clarity.
As for the shooting someone at 30,000 feet, yes I read that they have studied that- but it has not actually occurred. A controlled experiment is one thing but the real conditions of hysteria and chaos at 30,000 feet create all sorts of uncontrollable possibilities.
I see your point on the stun gun. The "shoot to kill" part, when I mention it at least, is aimed at the go get 'em mentality of some people on the board. It is so easy to say these things on a board (I suppose the cliche "Monday morning quarterback applies here as well) but I suspect that the air marshall is now himself suffering some pretty severe mental anguish over the incident.
There is just too much levity and at time glee on this board, and in general, about wars and shootings. I find the "well, it's his own fault, he forgot to take his meds" remarks to be callous and shallow.
That single incident damaged many lives- the air marshall's amongst them. This is why alternatives should be considered. I am sure today the air marshall who did the shooting is rehearsing in his head all of the possible alternatives he might have exercised, even if he truly had no alternative.
Trying to be sensitive and thoughtful about such issues is not a liberal thing- it is humane. I have great appreciation for thoughtful conservatives. But there are not many of them on this board. |
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