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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: Months of rendition for having 'a suspicious name' |
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Anatomy of a CIA Mistake
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Wrongful Imprisonment: Anatomy of a CIA Mistake
German Citizen Released After Months in 'Rendition'
By Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 4, 2005; Page A01
In May 2004, the White House dispatched the U.S. ambassador in Germany to pay an unusual visit to that country's interior minister. Ambassador Daniel R. Coats carried instructions from the State Department transmitted via the CIA's Berlin station because they were too sensitive and highly classified for regular diplomatic channels, according to several people with knowledge of the conversation.
Coats informed the German minister that the CIA had wrongfully imprisoned one of its citizens, Khaled Masri, for five months, and would soon release him, the sources said. There was also a request: that the German government not disclose what it had been told even if Masri went public. The U.S. officials feared exposure of a covert action program designed to capture terrorism suspects abroad and transfer them among countries, and possible legal challenges to the CIA from Masri and others with similar allegations... |
The CIA has gone too far and the administration has only aided and abetted their sloppiness. Some remarks on Gitmo are included.
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One way the CIA has dealt with detainees it no longer wants to hold is to transfer them to the custody of the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay, where defense authorities decide whether to keep or release them after a review.
About a dozen men have been transferred by the CIA to Guantanamo Bay, according to a Washington Post review of military tribunal testimony and other records. Some CIA officials have argued that the facility has become, as one former senior official put it, "a dumping ground" for CIA mistakes. |
But in the Masri case, what really sticks out is that there was no evidence for the CIA to pick the man up. They didn't even have the patience to hold him in custody under a presumption of innocence under his passport was verified.
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In the first weeks of 2004, an argument arose over whether the CIA should take Masri from local authorities and remove him from the country for interrogation, a classic rendition operation.
The director of the al Qaeda unit supported that approach. She insisted he was probably a terrorist, and should be imprisoned and interrogated immediately.
Others were doubtful. They wanted to wait to see whether the passport was proved fraudulent. Beyond that, there was no evidence Masri was not who he claimed to be -- a German citizen of Arab descent traveling after a disagreement with his wife.
The unit's director won the argument. She ordered Masri captured and flown to a CIA prison in Afghanistan. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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More garbage from President Strong-On-Terror.
If it wasn't all so deadly serious his apologists would be merely sad clowns rather than people hurting their own country. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
More garbage from President Strong-On-Terror.
If it wasn't all so deadly serious his apologists would be merely sad clowns rather than people hurting their own country. |
What did Bush personally have to do wih this particular case? Does he personally sign an order for EVERY terror suspect to be arrested? Did he even know about this?
Or was it some over-zealous underling?
Blaming Bush for things like this is why he has defenders. Some people like to take a fair and balanced view of things. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: It would have to be a whole nest of aggressive underlings... |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
More garbage from President Strong-On-Terror.
If it wasn't all so deadly serious his apologists would be merely sad clowns rather than people hurting their own country. |
What did Bush personally have to do wih this particular case? Does he personally sign an order for EVERY terror suspect to be arrested? Did he even know about this?
Or was it some over-zealous underling?
Blaming Bush for things like this is why he has defenders. Some people like to take a fair and balanced view of things. |
From the article:
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J. Cofer Black, a professorial former spy who spent years chasing Osama bin Laden, was the CTC's director. With a flair for melodrama, Black had earned special access to the White House after he briefed President Bush on the CIA's war plan for Afghanistan.
Colleagues recall that he would return from the White House inspired and talking in missionary terms. Black, now in the private security business, declined to comment.
Some colleagues said his fervor was in line with the responsibility Bush bestowed on the CIA when he signed a top secret presidential finding six days after the 9/11 attacks. It authorized an unprecedented range of covert action, including lethal measures and renditions, disinformation campaigns and cyber attacks against the al Qaeda enemy, according to current and former intelligence officials. Black's attitude was exactly what some CIA officers believed was needed to get the job done.
Others criticized Black's CTC for embracing a "Hollywood model" of operations, as one former longtime CIA veteran called it, eschewing the hard work of recruiting agents and penetrating terrorist networks. Instead, the new approach was similar to the flashier paramilitary operations that had worked so well in Afghanistan, and played well at the White House, where the president was keeping a scorecard of captured or killed terrorists. |
I, too, used to ask people to show me how Bush might be personally involved in all this torture and detention stuff...until the evidence was presented. And there's plenty of it out there.
For example, take Peter Goss' interview. As the director of the CIA, he clumsily denies torture.
Or, you can look this article, which shows where Bush is objecting to a bill that would prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" of anyone in U.S. military custody.
Or check this article out, which was one of the first ones to bust out the secret prisons stories in the American media.
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The agency set up prisons under its covert action authority. Under U.S. law, only the president can authorize a covert action, by signing a document called a presidential finding. Findings must not break U.S. law and are reviewed and approved by CIA, Justice Department and White House legal advisers.
Six days after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush signed a sweeping finding that gave the CIA broad authorization to disrupt terrorist activity, including permission to kill, capture and detain members of al Qaeda anywhere in the world.
It could not be determined whether Bush approved a separate finding for the black-sites program, but the consensus among current and former intelligence and other government officials interviewed for this article is that he did not have to.
Rather, they believe that the CIA general counsel's office acted within the parameters of the Sept. 17 finding. The black-site program was approved by a small circle of White House and Justice Department lawyers and officials, according to several former and current U.S. government and intelligence officials. |
In other words, it is not necessary that Bush directly approve of the black-sites. Plausible deniability. But, Bush did approve the expansive finding amid a debate where others (Colin Powell as one example) urged him to reconsider.
My fair and balanced view is that Bush smells responsible, but he'll never be held accountable. You have him writing a broad finding permitting new kinds of actions to hunt down terrorists, you have one of his attorney generals redefine the word torture, you have CIA officials and CTC agents revolutionizing their methods from cautious to aggressive, you have a Vice-President arguing with Sen. McCain that expansive powers for the President is necessary, and you have the administration trying to compromise by exempting the CIA from prohibitions against torture that might apply to the rest of the armed forces. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| You can read more on Black in Steve Coll's Ghost Wars; Black figures prominently in a few chapters. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm disappointed that so many European foreign ministers were eager to accept Condoleezza Rice's assurances that the US doesn't use torture. Even if it is true, it's a fairly well-known fact that the US government has foreign agents doing some of its dirty work.
http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: It would have to be a whole nest of aggressive underling |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
More garbage from President Strong-On-Terror.
If it wasn't all so deadly serious his apologists would be merely sad clowns rather than people hurting their own country. |
What did Bush personally have to do wih this particular case? Does he personally sign an order for EVERY terror suspect to be arrested? Did he even know about this?
Or was it some over-zealous underling?
Blaming Bush for things like this is why he has defenders. Some people like to take a fair and balanced view of things. |
From the article:
| Quote: |
J. Cofer Black, a professorial former spy who spent years chasing Osama bin Laden, was the CTC's director. With a flair for melodrama, Black had earned special access to the White House after he briefed President Bush on the CIA's war plan for Afghanistan.
Colleagues recall that he would return from the White House inspired and talking in missionary terms. Black, now in the private security business, declined to comment.
Some colleagues said his fervor was in line with the responsibility Bush bestowed on the CIA when he signed a top secret presidential finding six days after the 9/11 attacks. It authorized an unprecedented range of covert action, including lethal measures and renditions, disinformation campaigns and cyber attacks against the al Qaeda enemy, according to current and former intelligence officials. Black's attitude was exactly what some CIA officers believed was needed to get the job done.
Others criticized Black's CTC for embracing a "Hollywood model" of operations, as one former longtime CIA veteran called it, eschewing the hard work of recruiting agents and penetrating terrorist networks. Instead, the new approach was similar to the flashier paramilitary operations that had worked so well in Afghanistan, and played well at the White House, where the president was keeping a scorecard of captured or killed terrorists. |
I, too, used to ask people to show me how Bush might be personally involved in all this torture and detention stuff...until the evidence was presented. And there's plenty of it out there.
For example, take Peter Goss' interview. As the director of the CIA, he clumsily denies torture.
Or, you can look this article, which shows where Bush is objecting to a bill that would prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" of anyone in U.S. military custody.
Or check this article out, which was one of the first ones to bust out the secret prisons stories in the American media.
| Quote: |
The agency set up prisons under its covert action authority. Under U.S. law, only the president can authorize a covert action, by signing a document called a presidential finding. Findings must not break U.S. law and are reviewed and approved by CIA, Justice Department and White House legal advisers.
Six days after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush signed a sweeping finding that gave the CIA broad authorization to disrupt terrorist activity, including permission to kill, capture and detain members of al Qaeda anywhere in the world.
It could not be determined whether Bush approved a separate finding for the black-sites program, but the consensus among current and former intelligence and other government officials interviewed for this article is that he did not have to.
Rather, they believe that the CIA general counsel's office acted within the parameters of the Sept. 17 finding. The black-site program was approved by a small circle of White House and Justice Department lawyers and officials, according to several former and current U.S. government and intelligence officials. |
In other words, it is not necessary that Bush directly approve of the black-sites. Plausible deniability. But, Bush did approve the expansive finding amid a debate where others (Colin Powell as one example) urged him to reconsider.
My fair and balanced view is that Bush smells responsible, but he'll never be held accountable. You have him writing a broad finding permitting new kinds of actions to hunt down terrorists, you have one of his attorney generals redefine the word torture, you have CIA officials and CTC agents revolutionizing their methods from cautious to aggressive, you have a Vice-President arguing with Sen. McCain that expansive powers for the President is necessary, and you have the administration trying to compromise by exempting the CIA from prohibitions against torture that might apply to the rest of the armed forces. |
I was asking about THIS "PARTICULAR CASE" Is there any evidence that Bush knew about Khaled Masri's case? Sure he may be responsible for some stuff, but too many people are eager to blame him even without any proof. Or even with doubtful proof. Remember those faked records? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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The fish rots from the head down. Bush bears responsibility in two ways:
1. He is the commander in chief. This makes him responsible for how the war on terror is conducted and for the safeguards that either or are (far more usually) aren't in place. He has argued many times for unfettered power to conduct the war and mostly has it.
2. His management style is atrocious. Numerous insiders have recounted that he cannot deal with hearing contrary viewpoints and that many are too afraid to bring him news or information he does not want to hear no matter how true it is. I'm guessing that stories of innocents being detained, imprisoned, and/or tortured is not high on his list of things to do something about. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:02 am Post subject: |
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From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
rendition
One entry found for rendition.
Main Entry: ren��di��tion
Pronunciation: ren-'di-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: obsolete French, from Middle French, alteration of reddition, from Late Latin reddition-, redditio, from Latin reddere to return
:
the act or result of rendering.
render
One entry found for render.
Main Entry: 1ren��der
Pronunciation: 'ren-d&r
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): ren��dered; ren��der��ing /-d(&-)ri[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English rendren, from Middle French rendre to give back, yield, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin rendere, alteration of Latin reddere, partly from re- + dare to give & partly from re- + -dere to put -- more at DATE, DO
transitive senses
2 a : to transmit to another : DELIVER b : GIVE UP, YIELD c : to furnish for consideration, approval, or information: as (1) : to hand down (a legal judgment) (2) : to agree on and report (a verdict)
5 : to direct the execution of : ADMINISTER <render justice>
abduction
One entry found for abduct.
Main Entry: ab��duct
Pronunciation: ab-'d&kt, &b-; 2 also 'ab-"
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin abductus, past participle of abducere, literally, to lead away, from ab- + ducere to lead -- more at TOW
1 : to carry off (as a person) by force |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
The fish rots from the head down. Bush bears responsibility in two ways:
1. He is the commander in chief. This makes him responsible for how the war on terror is conducted and for the safeguards that either or are (far more usually) aren't in place. He has argued many times for unfettered power to conduct the war and mostly has it.
2. His management style is atrocious. Numerous insiders have recounted that he cannot deal with hearing contrary viewpoints and that many are too afraid to bring him news or information he does not want to hear no matter how true it is. I'm guessing that stories of innocents being detained, imprisoned, and/or tortured is not high on his list of things to do something about. |
To respond to number 2. So if he doesn't know about something he is responsible for it? I'd love to see how this would fly in a hakwon setting:
WonJangNim (WJN) "One of our students jumped out of the third-story window today. You are bad teacher for letting this happen!"
Teacher (T) "But I wasn't even there! That was ten minutes before my class was due to start."
WJN "You should have been there to make sure things like that don't happen."
T: "But I locked the door to my class, I know, I always do."
WJN: "They picked the lock...and now one student is in hospital and it's all your fault."
If something like this ever happens, I hope that you will be there to tell the teacher that yes it is his fault for not knowing about it. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:19 am Post subject: |
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A better analogy would be this.
Wonjangnim is the kind of guy who goes berserk when a teacher tells him something he doesn't like to hear, such as that cute little Min-jung, whose parents pay a lot of money, is actually a big bully and beats the other kids up. His behavior is atrocious but teachers can't do anything because wonjangnim refuses to even listen to what they have to say. Eventually they stop bringing it up because they are sick of his temper tantrums and even fear for their jobs a bit.
Then Min-jung beats a kid up, seriously injuring him. Is wonjangnim directly responsible? No. Does he share significant blame for refusing to deal with a bad situation, and creating a poisonous atmosphere in which incovenient truth is not dealt with, allowing problems to fester and become serious? Yes. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:56 am Post subject: |
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More than 72 CIA-linked Landings in Canada:
Declassified Memos
JIM BRONSKILL
Wed Feb 22, 6:18 PM ET
OTTAWA (CP) - Newly declassified memos show the number of Canadian landings by planes tied to the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency far exceeds previously known figures.
Internal government briefing notes obtained Wednesday also reveal senior intelligence officials from six federal agencies, including Canada's spy service, met in late November to discuss the flights.
The memos underscore the level of concern in government circles about public fears the CIA has been ferrying terrorist suspects through Canada to foreign prisons.
One note, stamped secret, says 20 planes with alleged CIA ties have made 74 flights to Canada since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060222/ca_pr_on_na/cia_canada_flights |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
More garbage from President Strong-On-Terror.
If it wasn't all so deadly serious his apologists would be merely sad clowns rather than people hurting their own country. |
What did Bush personally have to do wih this particular case? Does he personally sign an order for EVERY terror suspect to be arrested? Did he even know about this?
Or was it some over-zealous underling?
Blaming Bush for things like this is why he has defenders. Some people like to take a fair and balanced view of things. |
This should be obvious, but...
IT SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING AT ALL. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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If Bush is not responsible, who is? 
You going to try and hang this on Clinton I suppose?
http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=215387
US 'aware' of Iraq torture
Herman Grech
The US is "aware" of torture taking place in Iraqi prisons, according to the outgoing Maltese UN human rights chief in Iraq.
"Yes, torture is happening now, mainly in illegal detention places. Such centres are mostly being run by militia that have been absorbed by the police force," says John Pace, who retired last week as human rights chief for the UN assistance mission in Iraq.
In a frank interview with The Times, Dr Pace says photos and forensic records have proved that torture was rife inside detention centres. Though the process of release has been speeded up, there are an estimated 23,000 people in detention, of whom 80 to 90 per cent are innocent.
He says the Baghdad morgue received 1,100 bodies in July alone, about 900 of whom bore evidence of torture or summary execution. That continued throughout the year and last December there were 780 bodies, including 400 having gunshot wounds or wounds as those caused by electric drills.
Dr Pace expresses deep concern over the progress of the Saddam Hussein trial, saying he would have preferred to see the former dictator tried internationally.
After two years serving in Iraq, Dr Pace says that the non-existence of law and order has left society without any protection, clearly reflecting that the US invasion was not properly planned. |
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