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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:49 am Post subject: Iranian President calls Holocaust a "myth" |
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TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday the Holocaust is a "myth" that Europeans have used to create a Jewish state in the heart of the Islamic world.
"Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets," Ahmadinejad told a crowd of thousands in the southeastern city of Zahedan.
Six million Jews were killed in Europe during the Nazi Holocaust of World War II.
Ahmadinejad said it was the Europeans who committed crimes against the Jews and they, the United States or Canada should give part of their land to the Jews to establish a state.
Ahmadinejad provoked an international outcry in October when he called Israel a "disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the map."
Last week, he suggested that Israel should be transferred to Europe, drawing further condemnation. (Full story)
"If you (Europeans) committed this big crime, then why should the oppressed Palestinian nation pay the price?" Ahmadinejad asked rhetorically Wednesday. "You (Europeans) have to pay the compensation yourself.
"This is our proposal: give a part of your own land in Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to them (Jews) so that the Jews can establish their country," he said.
Ahmadinejad said the West had harmed Muslims, invaded their countries and plundered their wealth.
"If your civilization consists of aggression, making oppressed people homeless, suffocating the voices of justice and bringing poverty to a majority of the world's people, we say loudly that we hate your hollow civilization," he said.
The president's views sharply conflict with those of his predecessor Mohammad Khatami, a political moderate who used to call for a dialogue among civilizations and promoted a low-key understanding with the United States that stopped short of diplomatic relations.
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| The lad is on a roll! |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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few things
1) didn't he say this a couple months ago?
2) why DID the Jewish people get Israel after the war? I mean specifically, why DID the land get annexed?
3) uhm...your title is a bit off: I don't see him saying that it was a myth. Just that if europeans felt so bad for the Jewish people, why didn't they give Jewish people a nation in Europe?
I don't agree with him or anything...but just out of curiousity, why? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:48 am Post subject: |
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just out of curiousity, why?
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Actually, it was the wrong war.
The British gave Palestine to the Israelis (sic) with the Balfour Declaration in 1917. The Other big war of the century. It was just about the same time that they created the artificial state of Iraq. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: |
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Last time I checked Israel won a few wars against the Arabs.
This man has a big fat X on his forehead.
Off him. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Just that if europeans felt so bad for the Jewish people, why didn't they give Jewish people a nation in Europe? |
Do you really think many of them would have wanted to live in Europe, next door to the Germans, after what had happened?
Moreover, since the late 19th Century Jewish immigration to Palestine had been increasing. It rose markedly throughout the 1930s, and so a Jewish homeland in Palestine was the natural place for historical and practical reasons. |
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Bee Positive
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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deleted by dave
Last edited by Bee Positive on Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Are elections soon in Iran? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bee Positive wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| Last time I checked Israel won a few wars against the Arabs. |
Iranians aren't Arabs. |
I've noticed bgefore that sundubuman needs to employ a facts-checker. He owes me a tidy sum for setting straight gaffes like that in the past, and now he owes you a bit as well.
Of course, for some people, you know, "They all look alike to me ..." |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| The British gave Palestine to the Israelis (sic) with the Balfour Declaration in 1917. The Other big war of the century. It was just about the same time that they created the artificial state of Iraq. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
The main points being...
In 1917 the British Foreign Secretary Arthur J. Balfour issued the historic Balfour Declaration that "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people".
On May 14, 1948, before the expiring of the British Mandate of Palestine on midnight of the May 15, 1948, the State of Israel was proclaimed. The surrounding Arab states supported the Palestinian Arabs in rejecting both the Partition Plan and the establishment of Israel, and the armies of six Arab nations attacked the State of Israel. Over the next 15 months Israel captured an additional 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan river and annexed it to the new state. Most of the Arab population fled or were expelled during the war. The continuing conflict between Israel and the Arab world resulted in a lasting displacement that persists to this day.
The British and the Americans probably wanted an ally in the middle east. Truman was influential in bridging the deal.
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/
Truman wrote in his memoirs, "The question of Palestine as a Jewish homeland goes back to the solemn promise that had been made to them [the Jews] by the British in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 - a promise which had stirred the hopes and the dreams of these oppressed people. This promise, I felt, should be kept, just as all promises made by responsible, civilized governments should be kept."
Interesting stuff! |
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Bee Positive
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Iranian President calls Holocaust a "myth" |
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deleted by dave
Last edited by Bee Positive on Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Bee Positive wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| Last time I checked Israel won a few wars against the Arabs. |
Iranians aren't Arabs. |
I've noticed bgefore that sundubuman needs to employ a facts-checker. He owes me a tidy sum for setting straight gaffes like that in the past, and now he owes you a bit as well.
Of course, for some people, you know, "They all look alike to me ..." |
Idiot. I know that Iranians aren't Arabs (But truth be told, there is a sizable Arab-Shiite population in Iran. And there are Kurds as well, and several other minorities.) In fact I've known that since growing up friends with my neighbors, the owners of the largest Persian-Carpet distributor in North America. Have been enjoying Persian cuisine since I was 8, adas polow and lamb stew are my favorite. And I spent many nights listening to the family bash Arabs more vociferously than I've ever heard any other American do. Decades before 9/11
The first sentence was a response to the previous post claiming that Britain "Gave" Palestine to the Jews, ignoring the subsequent wars that Israel fought and WON handily, against Arabs. The second paragraph was my opinion of the cretin leading the Great Islamic Republic of Iran.
If you read my sentence as a direct retort to the previous post, I think you'll figure it out. But as a liberal, it's more fun taking two unrelated sentences, tying them together to find a non-existent inconsistency, and then claiming a feloow forumer is ignorant of one of the most BASIC facts of the Middle East. By the way, in case you were wondering I have been aware that the Turks weren't Arabs since I was in 3rd grade with the Avcioglu kids. In case you were wondering. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe that the Iranian president has spoken rationally, and logically |
So, do you agree that Israel should be relocated to Europe? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The first sentence was a response to the previous post claiming that Britain "Gave" Palestine to the Jews, ignoring the subsequent wars that Israel fought and WON handily, against Arabs. |
subman,
Did or did not the British, the ruling colonial power at the time, grant Jews the right to immigrate into Palestine in 1917? Did or did not they partition the territory into two states: Israel and Jordan? The series of subsequent wars has nothing to do with the creation of the state, only with the location of the borders.
Bee,
Huge numbers of people were gassed, then burnt in the ovens. This is common knowledge. To question the basic fact is outrageous.
From my reading of the article, Ahmadinejad is not claiming the Holocaust did not happen. He's saying that Palestinians are being forced to pay for Europeans' commiting genocide. He's using 'myth' in a different sense than you are.
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I believe that the Iranian president has spoken rationally, and logically, on a topic which has too long been obscured under the cloak of guilt and frenzy and illogic and high emotion. We need to start looking at this issue rationally.
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The basic facts are not at issue. Your motives for challenging them are only question here. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jews had lived in the land for millenia, and increasing numbers began moving their in the 19th century.
To deny the fact that Israel fought and won wars to earn its existence by claiming the country was "given" to them is ridiculous.
However you look at it, Israel is there almost entirely out of the will of its people. How else has Israel not only survived but thrived in the face of 200 million rabid Arabs??
Oh I forgot....it is only because of American aid....or the Jewish cabal in NY...
right?
Nearly half of Israel's population is Sephardic, descending from Arab and Persia Jews. Suppose they should also high-tail it to Europe.
The whole thing is ridiculous. Something like 5 million Middle Easterners have migrated to the States, probably 10 million to Europe, I'm guessing a half a million at least to Canada, and as we're seeing down under this week, 300,000 to Australia. Meanwhile, a couple million Jews return to the land of their ancestors and survive wave after wave of assault, and it is the one that is colonizing???
If only the left in the west would wake up, and shut up....the world would heal itself much more quickly. But as long as people whine and moan about Israel and even consider debating the merits of a would-be genocidal madman on an un-read web forum....I'm not optimistic.... |
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