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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: S.Korean team to speak about 'faked' clone study |
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Hot off the presses:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051216/ts_nm/science_korea_cloning_dc
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SEOUL (Reuters) -
South Korea's most renowned stem-cell scientist returned to his office on Friday and his team was due to speak publicly about media reports that he wanted a landmark study retracted because key parts were fabricated. |
Fabricated? Oh dear. This about wraps it up for the Korean stem cell industry. Seriously. In politics and show business you can cheat and lie and stage amazing come backs but science is unforgiving. You lie once, doesn't even have to be a big lie, and no one will ever touch your research again.
Deep down, your raw data is taken at face value. Journals referee for method and your conclusions. ("Hmmm... no one agrees that your data justifies your conclusion.") But no one checks the veracity of your raw data. If you do fudge your results, the ultimate check on that is repeatability. Someone will try to duplicate your results. If they can't using your published method, you will eventually be smoked out. Science assumes honesty here because if you are smoked out, you will be cut off like a cancerous limb. You can't do world class science if the rest of the world won't touch you or publish your papers. Way to go Hwang!
My one friend seems utterly devastated this morning by the news. And she was even against stem cell research. It seems to me this is Korea's Challenger disaster.
I wonder if this will put to rest the theory about how metal chopsticks have produced a master race? You know the theory went "gosh, it's odd Korean stem cell researchers are getting results no one else is getting." "Well, see it's because we are faking our... no no... we're raised using metal chopsticks which makes our brains and eye/hand coordination superior!"
I guess, in the final analysis, metal chopsticks only helps make Korean scientists the best bald face liars on the planet. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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This is terrible but I'm going to say it anyways.
I'm happy a Korean is getting his ass handed to him on the world stage for academic dishonesty. Maybe now Koreans can undergo some soul searching and ask some questions as to why their education system is such a failure.
This can only be a good thing. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| For those interested in this story, there is another thread called Oh.My.God. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| For those interested in this story, there is another thread called Oh.My.God. |
An entirely helpful and descriptive subject line, n'est pas? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm watching it right now. Dr. Hwang's position is essentially that all his research was real, that nothing was faked. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I watched it...but couldn't understand most of it.
Do you think he is telling the truth?
Or is this a last grasp at saving face...
And what was up with the f*cking microphone problem...made the whole interview seem a fair bit like poorly run circus  |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| I'm watching it right now. Dr. Hwang's position is essentially that all his research was real, that nothing was faked. |
The research can be real, but it is the results, or the lack thereof, that count. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: Re: S.Korean team to speak about 'faked' clone study |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| If you do fudge your results, the ultimate check on that is repeatability. Someone will try to duplicate your results. If they can't using your published method, you will eventually be smoked out. |
Absolutely, but what are the ramifications of patent law on this I wonder? Cos Hwang earlier refused to share patent rights with Schatten so has he already put a patent on this scientific process?
I tend to feel that science shouldn't be subject to patent law but lawyers may disagree. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| lawyers may disagree |
Yes, if you are willing to pay them. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| lawyers may disagree |
Yes, if you are willing to pay them. |
IP lawyers have an interesting sense of humor. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
I watched it...but couldn't understand most of it.
Do you think he is telling the truth?
Or is this a last grasp at saving face...
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Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure it can be proven that he isn't. I'm not aware of the advances that have been made since his article was published, but I'll guess his research has been successfully replicated by others, or will be very soon. |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Well, it wasn't a total loss.
He can help the Boshingtawn industry clone perfect specimens for some good, down-home Korean eatin'! 
Koreans are good at copying things!
Isn't this all just about what we would expect from Korea and Koreans? I mean, really? Haven't we all seen it for years now: people writing other people's university entrance papers, article after article about cheating professors, Samsung executives getting caught and then being let go?
Oh, wait, this has all been a mistake. Mr. Hwang swears they have the embryos, but unfortuantely they may have been tainted, so don't blame him if something is wrong. He had them. He swears he had them!
So when is the next mass-forgiving by president Noh? The one where they pardon several million people for tax evasion and crimes against the government? |
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