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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:02 am Post subject: The bible promotes incest |
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 This is just to go along with all of the recent religious posts...but from a slightly different perspective.
If Adam and Eve were the first two humans, who did their children "mate" with? Are we all inbred? Maybe, since inbreeding causes genetic flaws and idiocy, we would all be a lot more perfect if God hadn't forced us to sleep with our mothers and brothers and sisters and fathers and grandparents and....this could explain cancer, and down's syndrome, and thousands of other diseases.
(I'm sticking with my earlier statement that I'm not going to argue and try to convince people that they're deluded and believing in a bunch of moralistic folk tales passed down through countless generations.)
I'm just curious about whether or not the bible explains how the multitudes come from 2 people. And where did the asians and white people and black people come from if we all had the same mother and father... hmmm |
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The evil penguin
Joined: 24 May 2003
Location: Doing something naughty near you.....
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Take a close look at the first parts of Genesis....... i don't have a copy handy to quote (currently a disillusioned agnostic) but i do recall adam and eve not being the only humans around. Why the emphasis on adam and eve i don't know... but i do recall a brief reference to the existance of other people.
As for the different races question... i had a nutty sunday school teacher once who claimed that the sons of noah were conveniently asian , black , white repectively and carried on their own genetic linages... i tend to call BS on this one however |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Well obviously the descendants of Adam and Eve had a certain measure of genetic diversity, and coupled with natural selection, over time, they adapted to their various circumstances in a process of evolution... oh.... er.... wait a minute! |
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mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about Adam & Eve.
But I've got a cousin I've wanted to bang since I was about 9. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Well as long as she is not your first cousin you should be ok. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Nice title. Although much of the Bible tends to hold up well as an archeological record, I'm not sure about its anthropological value. Nevertheless, the sons of Adam and Eve didn't marry their sisters. (Though LDS (Mormon) founder Joseph Smith taught that Cain married his niece.)
http://www.biblegateway.com is a handy tool, and I will use it here to prove my point:
In Genesis 4, Cain exiled for the murder of his brother Abel:
13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
Evidently, Cain is aware that there are people outside his family in the "land of Nod."
By the way, it's interesting to note that the "mark of Cain" was not a punishment.
From http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/mark_of_cain.html
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| Until the 1978 revelation to Mormon President, Spencer W. Kimball, black men were not allowed to hold the priesthood. This was based, in part, on Genesis 4:15, where God placed a mark on Cain after he had killed his brother Abel. Joseph Smith and later LDS leaders interpreted the "mark upon Cain" to be turning of Cain's skin (and that of all his descendents) black. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| So God created other people that the bible doesn't really mention (in the land of Nod), or did these people evolve from simians? Actually, I did look into this, and incest wasn't a sin or illegal until the time of Moses. Then Moses put down his foot, and said no more. Supposedly it was getting too far out of hand and they were starting to notice irregularities in inbred children. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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dude jesus rose from the dead
THEREFORE HE IS A ZOMBIE. all you christians pray to a ZOMBIE! |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| huck wrote: |
| So God created other people that the bible doesn't really mention (in the land of Nod), or did these people evolve from simians? Actually, I did look into this, and incest wasn't a sin or illegal until the time of Moses. Then Moses put down his foot, and said no more. Supposedly it was getting too far out of hand and they were starting to notice irregularities in inbred children. |
I don't really believe in a literal "Adam and Eve," i.e., a person made from dust and a person made from a rib who lived in a garden and wore animal skins hand-made by God. Therefore I'm not really the best person to give you a specific answer about the origin of humanity. I'm happy to consider the current scientific explanations for the ancestors of man, because I don't think it makes any difference to the meaning of my life or the nature of God. There's truth in the stories of Genesis, like God's desire for a relationship with man, our tendencies to exchange God's wisdom for our own, humanity's brutality and God's continuing mercy, etc.
With regard to incest, it certainly appears in varying degrees in the Bible, but direct family relations are frowned upon (Lot and his daughters, for example.) Some acceptable forms including marrying your widowed sister-in-law, or becoming a "kinsman-redeemer" by marrying a widow within your tribe. This happened for two reasons-- unmarried women were disenfranchised in that society, so marrying them ensures that they have offspring to care for them in their old age, and it also keeps their land in the family.
This link is very detailed, and explains the incest question much better than I could, including information from the Talmud which isn't found in the Bible:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=126&letter=I
By the way, the word "Nod" means "wandering" so Cain might not be referring to a specific geographical location. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Were those the same daughters that Lot threw to the mob to buy him some peace and quiet to plan his escape? Or different daughters? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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O boy, I can't wait to see the mocking begin now. 
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| (I'm sticking with my earlier statement that I'm not going to argue and try to convince people that they're deluded and believing in a bunch of moralistic folk tales passed down through countless generations.) |
So you will pacify us with insulting us?  Actually, it's a great question.
I don't agree with Kermo, I believe in a literal Adam and Eve. It you don't then you have to chuck the book of Romans. (Read romans 5 Kermo) As with all the other scriptures that refer to the sin of Adam and Eve. Every nation has come through Adam and Eve. Otherwise, there could be people who didn't sin and fall into darkness. This isn't mentioned. What could have happened, was Adam and Eve had a whole of children before they fell into sin.
So not only did this happen with Adam and Eve children, but with Jacob slept with his wife's daughter (under deception) and Lot slept with his children too (He was drunk and his daughters came in and slept with him). David's son slept with his sister.
1. If you are in Christ, we are all brothers and sisters in the family of God. Therefore, my wife, who is my sister in Christ, are having sex.  God ordained sex to be pure and beautiful. It was to be an expression of the type of love that He feels towards us, His children.
2. When God first created the world, he had hoped for a creation without the marks of sin. Sex was intended to be a glorious thing and it would bring glory to God. When sex is pure, and this will sound gross, I don't think it would have been wrong to have sex between two grown adults who are sister and brother. It is like the example, I have given between my wife and I. However, sin twists sex and turns it into something that doesn't glorify God. Sin causes genetic mutations and genetic deformatites. Since these kids started having sex and they were living in sin, then deformities came. When you sin, the curse of it visits your 3rd and 4th generation of children. It's called iniquity. This is why it is culturally taboo now, because it brings about deformaties.
3. You have to also consider this is an era where Adam and Eve were in the image of God. This isn't your normal race, but it was stronger and more physically evolved than us. The environment was still in its prime and glory. Over time, through inbreeding and sin, humanity and the environment became darker and full of sin. Therefore Moses had to put a stop to it by addressing it in His law. Paul also had to address the amount of debauchery in the corinthian church. Fathers sleeping with daughers, moms sleeping with sons and so forth.
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I was raised in a non-denominational church and wasn't taught much dogma, so I might be a bit of a heretic. I don't really buy the idea that "original sin" in the sense that "sin entered the world" at a specific moment, and is inherited. What about thinking of "the sin of Adam and Eve" in a less literal sense? It doesn't really change what sin is, or what we should do about it.
I'm curious, of course, about what people were like long, long ago, and who on earth the Bible is talking about when it refers to the giants who fathered "the heroes of old." I'd also like to know how it's all going to end, and when, and who Jesus will recognize as "his sheep."
However, I don't see clear answers in the Bible, and rather than fill in the blanks myself, I prefer to leave it up in the air. As Jesus said, "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day
has enough trouble of its own." |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Gee, kermo, I'm not sure your position makes sense. No offense, but if you don't believe it literally, why bother with it? Ten years from now, biotech researchers are not going to hold the fraud Dr. Hwang up as a hero and excuse his mistakes by saying "Well, his results were bogus, but if you take what he was saying metaphorically...".
Christianity would have a lot more appeal if the Christians who believe would just update the darned Bible to get rid of the stuff that they can agree they don't believe in. Why do you think your religion looks like lunacy to outside observers? |
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hojucandy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: In a better place
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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who cares. the bible is an ancient book which is irrelevant these days. besides it is written in allegory. only fools take it literally.
incest is a modern concept. it even differs from country to country now. in australia it is legal to marry your first cousin.
inbreeding is over-rated. it takes many generation of continuous inbreeding to cause problems. a little incest here and there does no damage to the gene pool. |
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