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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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| regardless of the fact that the kids are worthless |
I hope that you never have kids of your own. Comments like this coming out of the mouth of a so called "teacher" really are scary. You are the teacher I detested in school and the teacher who never made an ounce of difference in my life -- all you got was a paycheck and like women and kids, almost anyone can do that....BUT I guess like an *beep* every school has one....
Flame me if you want......hate comments like this from someone in a teaching profession.
DD
PS. taught many years of middle school. |
Yeah, it's a pretty worthless comment and things like that make me feel sad about the profession, too. He did say "I've taught gigafnords of middle school kids, but never in a public school setting" - which probably explains a lot. In a hogwild hogwan kids and teachers build up a lot more hatred, tension, and resentment between each other than in a school that has sound disciplinary structure. I have 180 MS students and I think they're all valuable - even the ones who occasionally annoy me or the ones whom I still barely even know because I don't see them often enough.
It's funny, though, how everyone has their age group. I can't stand little Korean kids. I think 80% of them are monsters. Mack probably shouldn't be teaching middle school kids and hopefully he's teaching a level more suitable for his aptitude (and attitude). |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Middle School teachers |
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| I_Am_Wrong wrote: |
I'm leaving my elementary school after a year and a half and I've been offered a couple of public middle school jobs. I'd like to pick your brains.
-What was your interview like?
-Do you teach all your classes with a co-teacher?
-Do you teach gov't curriculum?
-How is the attitude of the students in general?
I can't think of anymore right now but any info is much obliged. |
i love my middle school.
i had no interview, i am in the Wisconsin Program
I am the conversation teacher, which means i avoid the book at all costs. i make my own lessons. other teachers that may be behind might ask me to cover a section in the book, but i will not use it, i will teach the material with my own worksheets and materials.
I have three co-teachers. 2 i think have never missed a class. one misses about once or twice a month. the fourth misses half of the time.
the stduents vary in attitude, and i think the beggest factor in attitude is their normal english teacher. the stricter my coteacher (in and out of my class) the better the students pay attention. the teacher they hate most is the teacher that i like most because all she needs to do is glare and they shut up asap.
the thing to remember about middle school students is that they are not children and they are not adults. young enough to play and mess around, but old enough that there is a hidden interest in the opposite sex and desire to fit in. you need to balance their inner child and the adult that is developing inside. respect them a little but still not expect much... |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
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| Flame me if you want......hate comments like this from someone in a teaching profession |
No need. I'll simply direct you to my thread "American students blow Korean students away" and it will all become very clear indeed. |
All in all I think both countries have pretty bad educational systems, though I'm sure America has some schools that are far, far better than any Korean school (and some that are far worse). American students, however, can't hold a candle to Koreans when it comes to general pleasantness. Think of what mandatory language classes in America or Canada are like - they must be sheer hell to teach. Then I think of mine, teaching lesson after lesson to 30 students with very limited English skills, 90% of them happy and enthusiastic. Unless I could teach at an elite private school there's no way I'd prefer a teaching job in America, even for far more money. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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| regardless of the fact that the kids are worthless |
I hope that you never have kids of your own. Comments like this coming out of the mouth of a so called "teacher" really are scary. You are the teacher I detested in school and the teacher who never made an ounce of difference in my life -- all you got was a paycheck and like women and kids, almost anyone can do that....BUT I guess like an *beep* every school has one....
Flame me if you want......hate comments like this from someone in a teaching profession.
DD
PS. taught many years of middle school. |
I agree there. I actually find Mack's posts pretty funny generally and like his style, and some of his points above are not unreasonable, but saying K-kids are "worthless" is pretty offensive stuff to this observer I'm afraid. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| the thing to remember about middle school students is that they are not children and they are not adults. young enough to play and mess around, but old enough that there is a hidden interest in the opposite sex and desire to fit in. |
Absolutely! They're young enough to play and mess around and also old enough to begin finding things dreadfully tedious. I try to avoid tedious subject matter at all costs yet don't wish to patronize them with - I hate this phrase so much - really "fun" activities. I'm a rather old-fashioned teacher. As a language learner myself, I know that language-learning is all about memorization, repetition, understanding and practise. My fun derives from motivation and just learning language itself for its own sake, but 15 year-olds are rarely that way inclined. Stuff may be FUN but are they bloody learning anything? It's difficult grade 3, it really is. Then again, I'm sure there are better teachers out there than me! But - as much as I'll miss them - I'm rather looking forward to when the 3s leave for high school and I can start fresh with the next lot. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Spin, you must not have lucked out much. The best thing about my grade 3s is that I get to see them next year in grade one HS! And at winter break class!
Grade 3 MS and Grade 1 HS (academic, not vocational) are my favourite group to teach.
I agree about 'fun' making me cringe a bit when balanced against responsibilities. However, if you can do something challanging half the time and fun the other half I think it pays off. It makes them look forward to English lessons. Also, you're better off doing something fun with a lower learning curve where 100% are paying attention than something tedious when you reach the point when most of them no longer are. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| but saying K-kids are "worthless" is pretty offensive stuff to this observer I'm afraid. |
Oh for hell...
You guys who know my style should know better. I can understand how a noob might misinterpret my shenanigans, but you old timers?
I believe this will be the first and last post where I feel obligated to defend my choice of words.
If you read the thread I directed you towards, you will understand what is meant by "worthless". In other words:
All Korean middle and high school students do is study. End of conversation. In America, we not only studied our asses off, but we also had full-time band practice, full-time sports, and full-time clubs. That's why we (at least the kids I grew up with) completely blow Korean kids away. Not only did I graduate in the top of my class (400something students), I also played hard (soccer and track) and partied hard (started boozing it up in the 8th grade, got laid when I was 17 which is frankly over the hill, and I still graduated cum laude). All these kids do here is study. Hell, if all I had done was study (how miserable and worthless) I could be the goddam DEAN of Harvard right now.
I rule. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Mac,
I don't know you at all so MAYBE I took your comment too literally. I still say your attitude stinks, those two words shouldn't be in the same sentence together. I and I believe a good majority of teachers would refrain from calling students worthless because they don't party their asses off, get off being the football captain and laying chicks! Or even worthless because of the culture they live in. Look at each kid individually and stop adding up their scores in a column. Each one, Korean, American or Azerbijani has something humane and alive in them......something "beautiful" and worth nurturing..........Start doing this and you'll get my respect. The first part would be not blaming others for taking your comments the wrong way but saying, "yeah, wrong choice of words!"
Here's a Bukowski poem I have used in workshops.....shows a bit that we shouldn't write off kids and think they are worthless....you never know what great things are in their heads...
| Quote: |
I met a genius
I met a genius on the train
today
about 6 years old,
he sat beside me
and as the train
ran down along the coast
we came to the ocean
and then he looked at me
and said,
it's not pretty.
it was the first time I'd
realized
that.
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Each one, Korean, American or Azerbijani has something humane and alive in them......something "beautiful" and worth nurturing..........Start doing this and you'll get my respect. The first part would be not blaming others for taking your comments the wrong way but saying, "yeah, wrong choice of words!"
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I just vomited. Even if a grain of truth may be found in those words, it is highly illegal to put it into print like that.
Bukowski was a womanizing drunk in the semi-autobiographical books I read. 
Which leads me to the conclusion that you are either A) taking the piss or B) misguided. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
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| but saying K-kids are "worthless" is pretty offensive stuff to this observer I'm afraid. |
Oh for hell...
You guys who know my style should know better. I can understand how a noob might misinterpret my shenanigans, but you old timers?
I believe this will be the first and last post where I feel obligated to defend my choice of words.
If you read the thread I directed you towards, you will understand what is meant by "worthless". In other words:
All Korean middle and high school students do is study. End of conversation. In America, we not only studied our asses off, but we also had full-time band practice, full-time sports, and full-time clubs. That's why we (at least the kids I grew up with) completely blow Korean kids away. Not only did I graduate in the top of my class (400something students), I also played hard (soccer and track) and partied hard (started boozing it up in the 8th grade, got laid when I was 17 which is frankly over the hill, and I still graduated *beep* laude). All these kids do here is study. Hell, if all I had done was study (how miserable and worthless) I could be the goddam DEAN of Harvard right now.
I rule. |
So if you're saying that they lead worthless lives, why not try to make them more worthwhile? I don't think the lives the lead are entirely worthless, either. A lot of them are doing more than memorising marginally useful info, though they are doing that, too. If nothing else you have the chance to make a very good impression of foreigners to very impressionable young people. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| So if you're saying that they lead worthless lives, why not try to make them more worthwhile? |
Simply by being in my presence, their lives become more worthwhile. Alas, I can only hope that my aura of greatness will impact them and carry over into their miserable daily lives.
By the way, if you poll your kids and ask them if they are generally "happy", 70 to 80% will answer "no" with alarming alacrity.
I might add that I teach at a public elementary, I adore 82% of my students, and 80% of them think I'm the bee's head, shoulders, knees, and toes. But I pity them. |
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UncleAlex
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject: A Real Teacher? |
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In Korea, or any other country for that matter, a person is not considered
"a real teacher" by where he teaches, but by how he teaches. I've gotten
eqaul respect by the average student at both a hagwon and at a public
school. Most students usually goof off if they sense the teacher is unprepared
and find the lesson uninteresting or unamusing. A command of respect and
appreciation = participation and performance. Fear generates control, but control
does not necessarily entail co-operation and a willing involvement on the part of
the student.  |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
| Quote: |
| but saying K-kids are "worthless" is pretty offensive stuff to this observer I'm afraid. |
Oh for hell...
You guys who know my style should know better. I can understand how a noob might misinterpret my shenanigans, but you old timers?
I believe this will be the first and last post where I feel obligated to defend my choice of words.
If you read the thread I directed you towards, you will understand what is meant by "worthless". In other words:
All Korean middle and high school students do is study. End of conversation. In America, we not only studied our asses off, but we also had full-time band practice, full-time sports, and full-time clubs. That's why we (at least the kids I grew up with) completely blow Korean kids away. Not only did I graduate in the top of my class (400something students), I also played hard (soccer and track) and partied hard (started boozing it up in the 8th grade, got laid when I was 17 which is frankly over the hill, and I still graduated *beep* laude). All these kids do here is study. Hell, if all I had done was study (how miserable and worthless) I could be the goddam DEAN of Harvard right now.
I rule. |
Your parents had a bumper sticker on their car that said:
"My son is an Honor Role student at Dweebie High".
Am I right? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: A Real Teacher? |
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| UncleAlex wrote: |
In Korea, or any other country for that matter, a person is not considered
"a real teacher" by where he teaches, but by how he teaches. I've gotten
eqaul respect by the average student at both a hagwon and at a public
school. Most students usually goof off if they sense the teacher is unprepared
and find the lesson uninteresting or unamusing. A command of respect and
appreciation = participation and performance. Fear generates control, but control
does not necessarily entail co-operation and a willing involvement on the part of
the student. |
I'll re-post what I just wrote in another thread:
Complete opposite, in my experience. I get an enormous amount of respect at my current job; I quit my last one because of a lack of it. I'm the same person, and I started off both jobs trying to do my best. I'm still doing the best I can at my current job - they deserve my respect and a professional appearance and demeanour. After a while my old boss started to get the respect from me that he deserved, including a wayguk coming in in shorts, bare feet and sandles, and a tank top, just playing games with the kids. In my Korea experience (just over a year) getting the respect you deserve has been a one-way Western thing. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Your parents had a bumper sticker on their car that said:
"My son is an Honor Role student at Dweebie High".
Am I right? |
Nah, we're "Have gun, will travel" folk. |
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