Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Bee Positive]

[bucheon bum]

I think Vietnam produces a lot more culture shock for us weigook-in than its fellow Asian countries. I think that's clear in this thread.

Time for my generalization of the global tourism market: it has been my experience that dirt poor countries are pretty easy to travel in. Tourists don't have to worry about getting ripped off and the locals are pretty chill. It certainly was that way in the Middle East. Judging by what i've heard about Laos and Cambodia, it is similar. Those dirt poor countries don't get a hell of a lot of tourists, and aren't jaded about it, nor fully aware of the rip-off oportunities.

Alas, Vietnam is a step above them economically speaking. It's like the Egypt of Southeast Asia: has a lot of cool sites, gets a nice chunk of tourists, and the locals are fuly aware of it. They know that they can rip you off, be a-holes to some extent, and still have people follow in your footsteps. There is a lot of wealth in the country and everyone is trying to get a little bigger part of the pie.

Just a theory I'm throwing out there. I personally had a pretty easy ride in Vietnam, but I stuck to the tourist route there. Maybe I got ripped off numerous times. If I did, I'll tell you this much: the vietnamese are much smoother about it than their peers in Egypt and Morocco.

[liehtzu]

As someone who's lived both in Vietnam (where I am now) and Korea and travelled around East Asia some, I agree that Vietnam takes some adjustment. I came here directly after leaving the free and easy life in north Thailand, and Vietnam seems positively brutal by comparison.

Settling in took awhile, but in all honesty I can say that now I love the place. I have a quiet little house on a quiet little tree-lined street with tons of little kiddies running around and old grannies playing cards all day and no worries. I have to deal with a lot of the same minor, petty grief at my school that I did in Korea (and in Thailand), but I get paid on time and all in all it's nothing major. I'm in Danang, which is not an especially attractive or exciting city, but one which I've come to like very much. There are some of the best beaches in the country within a 10-20 minute motorcycle drive from my house, the fresh seafood and beer are cheap, the women beautiful (but difficult in many ways)...

I know people who've settled here in Vietnam, lived here for years, and despite their frequent complaints (this ranges from the people in general to the women to the gov't to the roads) I don't think they'd prefer to be anywhere else. Perhaps my feeling for this country is summed up by a friend who said that for him Thailand was a place to vacation and Vietnam a place to live. Of course, I know quite a few folks who settled down very easily in Thailand, too.

My love for Vietnam and Thailand are very different and too complicated to really go into here. I also love Korea quite a bit and would agree somewhat with the poster who compared the Viennese to the Koreans as tempermentally they strike me as quite similar. Both have a capacity to be extremely brutal and mercilous, but I've also encountered great generosity and hospitality.

About the ripping off, that's true. And trying to fleece backpackers is probably true, too (I haven't backpacked in Vietnam, I don't know). If you go to the market and you can't speak the lingo and you don't know what the prices should be they will take you for a spin, almost beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is a result of the lingering effects of a former gov't policy that actually created a "foreigner price" on everything. This is now officially dead, but the residue remains. Also, people are dirt poor and they assume foreigners are all rich - and considering the salary I get here and the lifestyle I lead compared to the locals just for teaching 20 hours a week, that'd basically be correct for me. Compared to what you make in Korea it's peanuts but here it is quite a tidy sum. Another factor is the constant throwing money around by wealthy tourists. I've heard tale of little kids making hundreds of dollars selling postcards to rich, drunken idiots. People see and hear that and think "these people are so ridiculous and foolish it's our duty to rip them off." And many Vietnamese do, indeed, see it as their duty to rip off foreigners.

I tell my kids that people dislike coming to Vietnam because they get ripped off and have unpleasant experiences with the locals. The kids always look a little sad about that and get apologetic, and I think the "hardness" of Vietnam will soften with future generations. I see the seeds of change in my younger students (I teach all ages here). I can truly understand why people dislike Vietnam, but people tend to get a fixed opinion of everyone being bad just because a couple of restaurants overcharged em. My students pretty much exemplify the Vietnam experience for me. I'll have atrocious, loud, obnoxious classes unlike any I ever had in Thailand, where my college students - mostly girls and ladyboys - tended to be passive to the point of stupor (though the ladyboys could get squirrelly). But I'll have other classes here in VN where the students are attentive, dedicated and really nice, memorable people to teach, which I also didn't have much of in Thailand. So it goes both ways. Vietnam is a bit of a contradiction but give it time.

On a final note, the original poster of this thread was upset about his experience in Vinh, which is in north-central Vietnam between Hanoi and Danang. Having spent a bit of time there myself I'd just like to chip in that I thought Vinh was a complete and utter cesspool, a truly appalling place to go and I recommend that any travellers in VN avoid it like the plague or, if absolutely necessary to stop there, GET THE HELL OUT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

Cheers.
Kris

[Tiger Beer]

great post liehtzu.

I loved everything about Vietnam - the people, the culture, the architecture, the food, everything.

But it was the being hassled day and night by moto-drivers that annoyed me to no end. If I were to ever live in Saigon or somewhere else in Vietnam, the first thing I'd do is buy one of those to get around. That would alleviate my #1 annoyance with the place.

Overall though, I can't help but think I'd love to live in Vietnam someday when the poverty levels rise a bit, and the people aren't as desperate.

[cellphone]

[deessell]

[jajdude]

[baldrick]

[skookum]

[Kyrei]

Just came back from 10 days in HCMC and Mui Ne. My wife and I loved it. On my second night there I told her that my days in Korea were numbered now. I have committments to finish here but in a few years I intend to move to Vietnam. Sure we didn't 'live' it yet, but I was so pleasantly surprised by the people and their welcoming attitude that it was a shock to return to Korea. The food was fantastic and I lived the pace of the city. The traffic was chaotic, but it flowed and people had to pay attention to others in order to survive... what a shock that was! It was chaotic but laid back as well. There was a noisy but very laissez-faire, go-with-the-flow quality about it. I wonder about people who complain about the motorcycle and cyclo drivers though. How hard was it to hold up a hand and shake your head... smile and say "No thanks". Sure you have to do it many times but no problem for me at all; street vendors, same same. A simple (polite) wave and shake of the head. And yet I saw so many people stressing over it, muttering about how much they hated it etc. Just relax people. By the end of my trip I just didn't look at them or make eye-contact and was rarely asked or harassed for it. Simple enough.

The only negative experience we had was at the resort in Mui Ne... avoid the Vonh Suong Seaside Resort at all costs. They are a "nickel and dime the tourist" place... everything was insultingly overpriced and aimed at travelers who never leave their resort. For example, booking a four-hour jeep tour of all the sights (dunes, canyons, etc.) was $11 USD each at any of the hundreds of little tour organisations. Our hotel offered the exact same tour to its visitors for $24 (with mineral water included). We only ate at the resort restaurant twice and regretted it both times; those were the only bad meals we had in 10 days. The "open buffet" where they counted and charged you for the number of French Fries you added to your chicken skewers... that sort of thing.

All in all, I overpaid for things on my first days in HCMH and do not begrudge the Vietnamese for that - if I am foolish enough to have done so then so be it and good on them. Case in point, it was raining and we were getting drenched so we paid $2USD for the plastic ponchos. I know that we were overcharged, especially when the woman offered $5 USD each at first.... my wife bargained her down to 2 for $4, I paid for them with a 100,000 bill and the woman could barely make 40,000 change. I know we overpaid and it makes no difference to me. If I were to live there I would certainly be better at gauging the proper price of things, over time at least.

What surprised me the most was after we left the War Remains Museum and were suitably humbled and quieted, I was shocked at how open and friendly the Vietnamese were to us foreigners. Considering their war was more recent, and the American side lost, they were hundreds of times more open and forgiving, and accepting, than Koreans who won (or at least didn't lose) their war longer ago. Really, really surprised me.

My wife will have a problem in Vietnam, at least for a while, as everyone there assumed she was Vietnamese. We only had a couple of wayward glances from people, but once they realised that she was not "same same Viet Nam" (can't even count the number of times she heard that!!) then it was all smiles. I know exactly what her first sentence in Vietnamese will be... hehehe.

A great trip and I can't wait to go back. I really want to spend more time in Saigon!

[Tiger Beer]

[mack the knife]

Two words:

Monkey. Island.

[Tiger Beer]

[jajdude]

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