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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| If Hwang had announced that he would be cloning transplantable organs within a few months, and if these claims were being taken seriously(people booking rooms at the hospitals and whatnot), I MIGHT find it credible that there would be a lot of genuine outrage against Hwang the man himself(as opposed to Hwang the-symbol-of-all-that's wrong-with-Korean-culture). As it stands, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's ever been claimed that Hwang's work was anywhere near that point. |
You have made some good points. If recearch into heart transplants had been set back 5 or 10 years, the average layman may not have perceived anything fundamentally wrong. However, such a setback would have inevitably affected hundreds of thousands of people. Of course, no-one would have sat folornly in their hospital bed saying "But it's 1971! We're supposed to have heart transplants by now! Some cosmic fiend has altered the space-time continuum!". Nonetheless, we have enough scientific and technological history behind us today to have some perception of what these discoveries may mean for the future.
And let's not forget all those Korean women who WERE donating their eggs. |
But Mr. on the other hand's point was how does this affect the average ESL teacher? There is little if any "emotional connection" between Hwang and them. The glee that most ESL teachers here appear to be feeling is grossly disproportionate to THEIR emotional investment in Hwang's work. When Hwang first made his claim, I don't remember a SINGLE expat here saying anything like "if this is true it means thousands of people will be helped." |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| how does this affect the average ESL teacher? There is little if any "emotional connection" between Hwang and them. The glee that most ESL teachers here appear to be feeling is grossly disproportionate to THEIR emotional investment in Hwang's work. When Hwang first made his claim, I don't remember a SINGLE expat here saying anything like "if this is true it means thousands of people will be helped." |
This is a very interesting point. It does have truth to it too when you consider this thread and the reactions by some posters.... |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| sid wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
When the United States put a man on the moon (and got him back in one piece), for example, there was certainly pride, but the accomplishment itself was seen first and foremost as one shared by all humankind. |
Nice humankind flag he's got there.
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hahahaha |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sid wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
When the United States put a man on the moon (and got him back in one piece), for example, there was certainly pride, but the accomplishment itself was seen first and foremost as one shared by all humankind. |
Nice humankind flag he's got there.
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I'm sure many people around the world -- particularly those ones behind the Iron Curtain -- would've been rubbing their hands with glee if a few months after the moon landing, conclusive evidence came out that the whole thing was staged. (Conspiracy Theorists, don't miss the point and start posting links.)
I can be counted as one of those people who got a smile out of this, and I'll admit it's pure pettiness. Billybrobby summed up my feelings to the tee.
In Korea, everything has to be turned into an issue of nationalism. It's always about an advance for Korea and never about an advance in the actual pursuit, whether it be football, science, or whatever, and foreigners are just as bad as Koreans in this regard. More specifically, in the Hwang case, I'm thinking of the Slate article that went off on a tangent about Korean society and how it has lead them to be leaders in stemcell research. As for Dr. Hwang himself, he is not a likeable person, and he played the nationalism line for all it was worth. Nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, and given that his work turned out to be bogus, it's not surprising that he he did.
So like it or not, no matter how much you try to ignore the nationalist chest thumping and concentrate on the pursuit itself, a part of your heart believes it's about us vs them, our culture versus their culture. It's not surprising that we might feel a bit of glee when we "win".
That's not to say I want to be petty, I don't; and in my mind, I believe that humanity is worse off overall; but after all, I'm human, and pettiness is a very human feeling. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Good post Bosintang. Pretty much my thinking too.
Actually, it's not the fall of Dr. Hwang that tickles me. Rather, it's the about face that the Korean media had to do. In my opinion it's the media who propagate the nationalism so much here. They encourage that very ugly "Korea No.1!!", thing. It was nice to see them sheepishly report the fakery after so much ridiculous chest-beating. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to applaud the last two posters. At last we have some people here who have the guts to admit, that yes its pretty much pure pettiness.
Well done gentlemen. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I would like to applaud the last two posters. At last we have some people here who have the guts to admit, that yes its pretty much pure pettiness.
Well done gentlemen. |
You're a brick wall dude.
The point of the last two posts was the ugly nationalism that is very evident in Korea. You don't see it maybe? Don't want to see it? Or simply can't? |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I would like to applaud the last two posters. At last we have some people here who have the guts to admit, that yes its pretty much pure pettiness.
Well done gentlemen. |
I was guilty of the same pettiness when I first heard news of the stem cell fraud.
How do you feel when noobs turn up on these boards confessing their cultural disorientation and asking for advice? |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| how does this affect the average ESL teacher? There is little if any "emotional connection" between Hwang and them. The glee that most ESL teachers here appear to be feeling is grossly disproportionate to THEIR emotional investment in Hwang's work. When Hwang first made his claim, I don't remember a SINGLE expat here saying anything like "if this is true it means thousands of people will be helped." |
This is a very interesting point. It does have truth to it too when you consider this thread and the reactions by some posters.... |
Do you remember that woman who posted on her blog about how chauvinist male Korean's supposedly are? Remember how she suspected her boss of getting back at her after reading her blog entries? Didn't you respond with, like, a dozen  s and "What goes around comes around" and "I hope you enjoy your crap soufle" or something or other? (Please correct me if I'm mistaken).
Don't get me wrong - I would understand if you have matured since then. I have also made some petty knee-jerk reactions in the past. Just remember, you are no better than the rest of us. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I would like to applaud the last two posters. At last we have some people here who have the guts to admit, that yes its pretty much pure pettiness.
Well done gentlemen. |
You're a brick wall dude.
The point of the last two posts was the ugly nationalism that is very evident in Korea. You don't see it maybe? Don't want to see it? Or simply can't? |
Mr. bosintang admitted that his glee was out of pettiness. And then you came along and said "Pretty much my thinking too." This does not stem out of any emotional connection to Hwang's work, which was what most of the rest were claiming. THAT is what I was saying all along.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I would like to applaud the last two posters. At last we have some people here who have the guts to admit, that yes its pretty much pure pettiness.
Well done gentlemen. |
(1) I was guilty of the same pettiness when I first heard news of the stem cell fraud.
(2) How do you feel when noobs turn up on these boards confessing their cultural disorientation and asking for advice? |
Numbers are mine)
1. And a hearty "Bravo!" to you for admitting such.
2. I give them advice. Generally though I save that for PM's. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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My nextdoor neighbors have discussed Dr Hwang with me. I'm totally not interested in the matter, but Koreans always ask me what I think. They, my neighbors, blame Hwang's actions on Korean 'quickly, quickly' culture. In the 1980s, they say, South Korea was very poor with a lot of unemployment. Now, it's mega-rich. This has resulted in unbelievable impatience in Koreans. I don't even agree with them, but that's their thesis. My neighbours also tell me how much they like waygook salam. They're grateful because we helped them in the Korean War. For every hagwon monkey who's never been outside North America before ("Oh my God, someone bumped into me!") there's a dashing bon viveur like me who has TAKEN THE RESPONSIBILITY to better one's self via a true understanding of reality.
So Koreans see themselves as Korean first and human second...WOW...so do Americans (I don't see Korean homes with the flag outside the door like EVERY SINGLE F-ING HOME in PA); so do the English, so do the Scots, so do the Israelis, so do the French, so do the Irish, so do the Argentinians, so does F-ING EVERYONE!
Grow up for F-CK'S sake! |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: LOGIC |
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In August I learned that the research of Hwang would be meaningless(due to American/Harvard research) if not for one reason or another. So, although this is quite entertaining I'm not surpised the least bit.
I'll go out on a limb(No, more like a branch) here and say that the so-called "SNUPPY" is nothing but a twin. No cloning involved what so ever!
"Spinoza" - I'll bet Koreans won't continue to ask you about it(opinion on Hwang) anymore(they're embarrassed and fed up). And, why don't you believe Koreans about the Korean quicker/faster approach(they should know before you since they have lived it)? Also I'm American and I've never hung my flag for the reason of being 1st, only to show my love for country. There is a big difference!
"Eamo" - You're correct about "Theurbanmyth"(brickwall) on this thread or recent comment!
"Indytrucks" - no great pleasure, just simple satisfaction. Maybe there will be some good that comes out of this such as how the neticen/fanclub view themselves and how Koreans may think twice about quickly disregarding MBC/TV programs for trying to find the truth. Maybe more Koreans will try to find the truth and justice in future instances. Something wrong with finding simple satisfaction there?
You/I/WE might, or could benefit from stem cell research if the scientists could get there act together and cure the so-called incurables without the greed factor(check the link below about a possible long wait for the Harvard research team). I think I can trust them more than some research team from SNU.
"Bosintang" - There is a difference in my(American) nationalism and the typical Korean nationalism. Although it hasn't always been that way. Let's just say I may have felt a similiar way before about wanting our team to win. If you use the 1980 Olympic Hockey team for example, I was much younger then and I really wanted America to win. But, I usually want or cheer for the underdog. I never hate the other team for winning as does many Koreans hate an American ice skate racer(or in a more recent Mens Olympic Gymnastic competition) for winning. Nationalism is fine, as long as you don't HATE!
"On The Other hand" - Bush is not hostile toward stem cell research, he supports it financially to a point. However, he doesn't write a blank check to one individual/institution automatically. check this link out below...America/Harvard now certainly has "the leg up." Their reseach would completely bypass any/all that Hwang did or did not learn.
You may have read about it, an August/05 article...
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/stemcells_08-22-05.html |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:22 am Post subject: Re: LOGIC |
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| buymybook wrote: |
"Eamo" - You're correct about "Theurbanmyth"(brickwall) on this thread or recent comment!
tml |
Get back under your bridge there fella
Why are you taking potshots at me? Did I humilate you in an argument and this is your way of getting back at me? |
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