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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
(1) It is all about the bottom line. Every single one of you (including me) can be replaced by someone cheaper, better looking and younger. There is not one person working in Korea teaching English who isn't easily replaced.
(2) This is the fact that people seem to like to forget.... is that they really aren't doing anything too difficult. You are not really professors because you don't do any actual research and you are don't have the rights of a public school teacher (the real teacher can have you terminated). The sad truth is that we are not really special in Korea....we are needed somewhat, but not individually special.
(3) This is why we will bend over and say we like..anytime, anywhere and anyplace. We are poor and desperate for that next payday...and the Koreans know it. |
(1) True , but the replacement could easily be worse than what they have. That is why a number of schools ask for the current teacher to resign. There are not THAT many people coming over here. And due to current and proposed Immigration restrictions, there are and will be more people leaving than before. And most people are only here for a year or two. Most schools (I don't include hakwons in this catagory) would prefer someone with experience, who's lived here before and is familar with the culture. That way they don't have to deal with culture shock, inexperience and don't have to hold his hand at every step.
2. "the real teacher can have you terminated." No...at least in most cases this is not correct. It is the principal who makes that determination...and even then he has to call the Gyenoggi-Do board FIRST. It is the Education office (in most cases) that is your employer. Of course if you are hired by the school outright then it is the principal's call.
3. I've never had to bend over. I simply point to the contract and firmly but politely insist on it being followed. Case in point. On the first day at my school we were discussing the settlement allowance. The principal informed me that he would give me 200,000 won. I however, having read the contract knew that the settlement allowance was supposed to be 300,000 won. Did I smile and take the offer (and then later come to Dave's and whine about my school cheating me?)
No, I smiled and said "Excuse me for a moment" I then turned to the page where it stated the settlement allowance was 300,000 won, pointed to it and said "Isn't it supposed to be 300,000?". I received the full amount.
Sometimes they just don't read it too carefully. In my school's case no-one had given them a copy of the current contract. They were following a copy of another contract that they thought was the standard one. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Working at some universities isn't even like work. I couldn't imagine going back to the eikaiwa/buxiban/hogwon contracts and working conditions. I used to work 40 - 60 hours per week in Japan, Korea and Taiwan.
Now, I teach 3 days a week.
I only teach 10 hours over those 3 days a week.
My classes start at 8:00am and I'm done at 12:00pm for 2 of those days and then 8:00am - 10:00am on the other day.
Folks, life just doesn't get easier for an EFL'er - anywhere!
Now I'm starting nearly 2 months of paid vacation.
We get another 3 1/2 months starting from June.
I've come to realize that there is such a thing as 'too much time on your hands.'
But I had to get out of Korea to find a job as a 'real' university teacher!
None of this half university teacher/half hogwon teacher doing comulsory winter-summer camps deals LOL!!
Conditions at universities for TEFL'ers are only gonna get worse in Korea, IMO, and they seem to be following the lead of their neighbors in Japan where contract-renewals are capped at 2 - 3 years and classes are being outsourced to teaching agencies such as Berlitz and Westgate.
Fort those of you who work in university language departments that haven't been 'hogwonized', I'd say enjoy it while it lasts! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
Conditions at universities for TEFL'ers are only gonna get worse in Korea, IMO, and they seem to be following the lead of their neighbors in Japan where contract-renewals are capped at 2 - 3 years and classes are being outsourced to teaching agencies such as Berlitz and Westgate.
Fort those of you who work in university language departments that haven't been 'hogwonized', I'd say enjoy it while it lasts! |
If it does get worse, then more people will leave...and Korea will have to rethink this. Remember the 3 year vs 4 year debacle a few years back?
For you newbies Korea made having a four year degree compulsory to teach English. If you had a three year degree you could not. Basically only Americans and Canadians were now allowed to teach English.
However after a few months it became apparent that there were not nearly enough teachers...and this policy was overturned. |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| For those of you that are happy....then I am happy for you. The sad truth is, that for many people here, what I said was true. It is often the way I said and you only use your individual experience to say it is different. It's like saying smoking doesn't cause lung cancer because your grandfather smoked and he didn't get lung cancer. The fact is that smoking does cause cancer and people are not individually important in this industry. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
| For those of you that are happy....then I am happy for you. The sad truth is, that for many people here, what I said was true. It is often the way I said and you only use your individual experience to say it is different. It's like saying smoking doesn't cause lung cancer because your grandfather smoked and he didn't get lung cancer. The fact is that smoking does cause cancer and people are not individually important in this industry. |
And now you say "many" whereas before you claimed "every single one"
I am happy and I know of many teachers who are happy.
As far as not being "individually important" that is true in many jobs and many countries. Very few people are irreplaceable. So what? |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bellum99 wrote: |
| For those of you that are happy....then I am happy for you. The sad truth is, that for many people here, what I said was true. It is often the way I said and you only use your individual experience to say it is different. It's like saying smoking doesn't cause lung cancer because your grandfather smoked and he didn't get lung cancer. The fact is that smoking does cause cancer and people are not individually important in this industry. |
And now you say "many" whereas before you claimed "every single one"
I am happy and I know of many teachers who are happy.
As far as not being "individually important" that is true in many jobs and many countries. Very few people are irreplaceable. So what? |
Are universities really compensating most qualified foreign educators appropriately?
1. Are foreign educators treated as colleagues or hired hands? Do foreign professors usually teach more hours than Korean professors? How many foreign professors have sabbaticals?
Foreign Scholars Merit Equal Status
The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
John B. Kotch, JoongAng Ilbo (June 14, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html
2. Do foreigners experience difficulties and discrimination in Korea? What is the quality and size of most of the housing for foreign educators?
Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448
For Housing Rentals, Foreigners Easy Victims
by Byun Duk-kun, Korea Times (August 28, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200308/kt2003082818233111970.htm
3. How often do foreign educators receive a 12% increase in salary?
Have foreign educators ever received a 12% increase in salary?
12% Increase of Professors Salary Last Year, but Part-Time Lecturers' Were Decreased
Donga.com (February 14, 2002)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2002021400798
4. Do the average salaries of foreign educators come near $5,000 per month?
Professor Salary (2000 Salary)
South Korea: $5,511 per month
South Korea: exchange rate 1,134 won equals US$1
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/salaries/2000/popups/content/21prof.html
5. Who does the hiring and determines the salaries for foreign educators? Who controls the contract renewal process?
Corrupt Professors Common, Students Say
by Baek Il-hyun and Kim Ho-jeong, JoongAng Daily (April 28, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200504/27/200504272214239309900090409041.html
Stop Corruption in Academia
Editorial, JoongAng Daily (April 27, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200504/27/200504272153216879900090109011.html
A Country of Liars
by Kim Dae-joong, Chosun Ilbo (July 3, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200507/200507030027.html
Ex-pats Describe Korea's Culture of Corruption
by Kim Hong-jin, Chosun Ilbo (December 16, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200412/200412160027.html |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Off topic....
Real Reality: How much time do you spend each day to gather this collection of informative articles? Sometimes I am amazed at the amount of information you post. I may disagree with what you post, but it is good that you try to find out as much as possible.
On topic: The reason why it is important is because of two reasons.
1: Income for English teachers hasn't increased much in the last few years and I don't it will. We are making much less than we did years ago if you look at inflation. The reason the income is not increasing is because the owners know they can get a steady supply of new "teachers" or "professors".
2: Some university teachers or public school teachers seem to think that they are somehow better than other teachers. This is not true and needs to be said. Some have more experience and better qualifications but generally teachers are mostly the same. My point is that you should be happy if you can, but don't think that you can't be easily replaced in this industry. |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
| 2: Some university teachers or public school teachers seem to think that they are somehow better than other teachers. This is not true and needs to be said. Some have more experience and better qualifications but generally teachers are mostly the same. My point is that you should be happy if you can, but don't think that you can't be easily replaced in this industry. |
Well if they have more experience and qualifications, they probably are better. Teachers may be the same in terms of being human and can convey information to another human, but the really good teachers use amazing strategies, incredible techniques for motivation, and dedicate themselves to learning more of the same. They are constantly honing their skills and are not just teaching for the paycheque. This is true whether you are in Korea or any other country. Think back to when you were a student. What was the ratio of great teachers to one you thought were just taking up space?
This is also true of any level, so there may be a few instances where a teacher at a hakwan is better than someone who lucked in, or was more qualified on paper, to teach a university or public school position, But I would have to say as a general rule that the people I've worked with at both levels are different and have different levels of ability. Most of the people I've met who work at hakwans are here for the beer or the 'easy money' and have no desire to grow in the profession (notice I said most, not all). This is something they are doing until they get a 'real' job back home.
I've met people who go to their job in ripped t-shirts and skater pants who just seem to want to float through. They don't act like professionals and even if they may be decent people, they should not be teaching (some may wish they weren't - and the students pick up on that). Sometimes it is like they feel Korea would be a pretty good place to be if they didn't ave those pesky students to teach, or the boss, who pays them, to deal with.
On the other hand, many of the university people I know are dressed for success, attend kotesol meetings and other conferences, have been here a few years, and work toward their professional development.
Poet |
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goodbyekoreasale
Joined: 12 May 2005
Location: Yongsan, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:41 am Post subject: |
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I'd classify all the hogwan teachers I've met into the following categories;
A. Generic Nice: Mr and Ms Nice, usually from North America, trying to pay off their university or credit card debts.
B. Boozers and Losers: those who have failed in the West, or will never make it, livin' large in the land of delusion.
C. Norman Bates: those with mental disorders hellbent on scratching out an existence no matter how miserable.
D. Drifters: boys and girls from nowhereville Ontario passing a couple years before heading to the call centre.
E. Artistes: those who think they're rock stars, actors, writers, poets or models but never amounted to anything in the West and relish pretending they've made it big in Korea. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| goodbyekoreasale wrote: |
I'd classify all the hogwan teachers I've met into the following categories;
A. Generic Nice: Mr and Ms Nice, usually from North America, trying to pay off their university or credit card debts.
B. Boozers and Losers: those who have failed in the West, or will never make it, livin' large in the land of delusion.
C. Norman Bates: those with mental disorders hellbent on scratching out an existence no matter how miserable.
D. Drifters: boys and girls from nowhereville Ontario passing a couple years before heading to the call centre.
E. Artistes: those who think they're rock stars, actors, writers, poets or models but never amounted to anything in the West and relish pretending they've made it big in Korea. |
Which are you? I'm "B". |
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goodbyekoreasale
Joined: 12 May 2005
Location: Yongsan, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jacl wrote: |
| Which are you? I'm "B". |
Was a B but became an E ... still a B at heart though. |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=16461
Hankuk University of Foreign Studies will pay you an additional 1.6 million your 2nd year. Wonder if anyone is hired back for the 2nd year. It seems like they re-hire tons of teachers every year. The hours sound a little ambiguous to me, too. Lots of programs with different times, but no solid schedule.... split, split, split....
"Instructors teach a minimum of 20 hours per week..."
Kids, that could mean 60 hours per week, for all we know! |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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[....]
Last edited by Moldy Rutabaga on Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
| (3) We are poor and desperate for that next payday...and the Koreans know it. |
Speak for yourself. I am not poor and I don't personally know anyone who is desperate for cash before payday - especially every pay day. |
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