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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: Coal mine disaster... so I guess it wasn't a miracle! |
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You've probably caught this on CNN. The coal mine collapse, 13 men are trapped. Things didn't look good. Then there was news that 12 of the men were rescued alive. One died. The families were all waiting and praying in the nearby church. IT WAS A MIRACLE. See? God saved those men! And I guess they didn't even need medical attention after 2 or 3 days in a black seam because they were all going to be brought straight up to the church...
But apparently someone got the message ass backwards. It was 12 died and 1 lived. Hrm. What a mean god! Yes? Why did he kill all those men after people were all praying so hard in that church and then god let them be lied to! To really put the boot in. God can't just stick the knife in. He has to twist it I guess to really punish his faithful.
It's tragic but why do people always have to invoke god and a miracle when people follow their training, do their job, and people manage to come out of an ordeal alive? I think of the Air France plane that slid off the runway in Toronto. Everyone kept screaming "it was a miracle no one died!"
Well, no. Unless you mean the miracle of modern technology, an FAA that demands fully loaded planes can be emptied in 4 minutes, and some well trained emergency staff and cabin crew. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, last night before I went to bed, I was hearing news that they were all ok. When I got to work this morning, it was quite a shock to see that they in fact all died. How the heck did the first story get out?? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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http://blogs.courant.com/roger_catlin_tv_eye/2006/01/anderson_cooper.html#more
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CNN appeared to be the only one in that business Wednesday morning. Fox News, satisfied at miracles, had since moved on to Washington scandal reporting. MSNBC played commercials for robot sweepers. �Nightline� benefited from a late start time due to the Orange Bowl in order to report what it thought was the rare, late-breaking happy ending.
But even later breaking was the truth and CNN was alone in West Virginia when it came in, from local residents who were frankly sick of them repeating the lie of survival.
CNN had showed the problems with going live with a story � with Cooper constantly talking on camera, he was prevented, of course, from doing any actual reporting.
He was at the mercy of people who happened to come up to him and give him the news � from the good old boy who ran up and cried �we got 12 alive!� at 11:49 p.m. to the woman who took it upon herself to set the record straight at 2:45 a.m.
�There�s only one person alive,� said the woman, looking like Sissy Spacek in �Coal Miner�s Daughter,� who woke her kids up in the middle of night so they could witness the miracle of the miners� rescue. �The word has to get out.�
"All the time we heard there was a miracle," she said. "And there was no miracle."
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http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_01/007922.php
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Coal executives, threatened by Vice President Al Gore's green background and his pledge to increase taxes on fossil fuels, thought they could get a better deal with the Republicans � when they raised a record $3.8 million dollars for the 2000 federal election, 88 percent went to the GOP. At the annual meeting of the West Virginia Coal Association a few months after Bush's inauguration, the group's director told 150 industry executives, �You did everything you could to elect a Republican president. [Now] you are already seeing in his actions the payback.�
....Bush also demonstrated his friendship to industry leaders when he awarded the top job at MSHA to an executive with Utah's Energy West Mining Company, David Lauriski, whose top two deputies would also be recruited from mining companies. The woman who would become their boss, Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao, is the wife of Kentucky's Republican senator Mitch McConnell, a long time political ally of coal companies.
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| yeah, last night before I went to bed, I was hearing news that they were all ok. When I got to work this morning, it was quite a shock to see that they in fact all died. How the heck did the first story get out?? |
I blame the fact Americans don't understand English. It seems like the rescue party used the phrase "all but one are dead" which probably got interpreted by the hillbillies so sure their god was going to answer their prayers as "all are alive but one."
I wonder how Pat Robertson will spin this. Did West Virginia recently elect an activist judge or something? Approve gay marriage?
I'm being harsh in the face of a horrible tragedy because we keep seeing American voters doing exactly the same thing that's causing so much death in the Middle East and the reason an American president is rendering Iraqi babies down into a handful of carbon with phosphorus bombs. People assume their god works magic for the faithful and sends horrible disease and disaster after transgressors. Death and suffering are justified because of a loss of faith or a refusal to believe in some god. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'm being harsh in the face of a horrible tragedy because we keep seeing American voters doing exactly the same thing that's causing so much death in the Middle East and the reason an American president is rendering Iraqi babies down into a handful of carbon with phosphorus bombs. People assume their god works magic for the faithful and sends horrible disease and disaster after transgressors. Death and suffering are justified because of a loss of faith or a refusal to believe in some god.
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Well, wouldn't it be enough of an indictment to attack the American government for using religion to justify atrocities in Iraq? Why do you have to drag a traumatized communtiy(some of whom probably oppose Bush's policies) into it?
And anyway, there are LOTS of commentators who justify the current war by appealing to secular values like "spreading democracy" and "liberating women", making no mention of religion whatsoever. Presumably they have a following in the general public as well. But since these guys can't be so easily ridiculed as lower-class "hillbillies", you probably don't really wanna bother critiquing them. Better stick to making fun of people who have just experienced a horrible tragedy.
You know, I never paid much attention to Mindmetoo's posts. Now I know why. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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I'm being harsh in the face of a horrible tragedy because we keep seeing American voters doing exactly the same thing that's causing so much death in the Middle East and the reason an American president is rendering Iraqi babies down into a handful of carbon with phosphorus bombs. People assume their god works magic for the faithful and sends horrible disease and disaster after transgressors. Death and suffering are justified because of a loss of faith or a refusal to believe in some god.
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Well, wouldn't it be enough of an indictment to attack the American government for using religion to justify atrocities in Iraq? Why do you have to drag a traumatized communtiy(some of whom probably oppose Bush's policies) into it?
And anyway, there are LOTS of commentators who justify the current war by appealing to secular values like "spreading democracy" and "liberating women", making no mention of religion whatsoever. Presumably they have a following in the general public as well. But since these guys can't be so easily ridiculed as lower-class "hillbillies", you probably don't really wanna bother critiquing them. Better stick to making fun of people who have just experienced a horrible tragedy.
You know, I never paid much attention to Mindmetoo's posts. Now I know why. |
You come from a long line of hillbillies? It's people like this, with that mentality, that elect hillbillies like George W to power. Sorry for calling a spade a spade but this mentality does the world no good. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Your pleasure in their suffering is not healthy. It is disturbing that you cannot see this. |
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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I'm being harsh in the face of a horrible tragedy because we keep seeing American voters doing exactly the same. |
No, you're reveling in 12 men dying because you're a douche-monkey. And the fact that you keep qualifying it means you know how wrong you are.
Coal miners are the poorest of the poor. These impoverished men's deaths have nothing to do with President Bush or his politics. It's just a goddamn shame pure and simple. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| You come from a long line of hillbillies? It's people like this, with that mentality, that elect hillbillies like George W to power. |
If you think George W. Bush qualifies as a hillbilly, then you've obviously bought into his faux-populist "cowboy" routine. As such, you are as gullible as the people who vote for him because they LIKE that image.
And of course the more Bush gets lambasted as a "hillbilly", the happier he is, because it solidifies his "man of the people" image and allows him to play the politics of class resentment on behalf of his supposed fellow commoners. When in reality, he is about as close to being a hillbilly as is the Queen Of England. But I'm sure he appreciates all the free advertising he gets from liberal snobs such as yourself. |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously it is a tragedy. Mindmetoo's comments aren't very nice.
Still to be fair the Chinese regularly have much worse mining tragedies, I guess it must be because they are godless heathens  I don't think American or western lives are intrinsically more important than any other people. |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Oh, mindmetoo.... can't you just learn to play nice?
And I think it's time for an avatar which is a little less portly, please.  |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| I blame the fact Americans don't understand English. |
I love that you decided to use the word "fact" in that sentence. It's a fact that Americans don't understand English. Ignorant jackass...
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| It seems like the rescue party used the phrase "all but one are dead" which probably got interpreted by the hillbillies so sure their god was going to answer their prayers as "all are alive but one.". |
Because you were there? Really? You were there? Is that why you have the almighty knowledge of exactly what happened when the message was relayed from point to point during the mayhem that was going on? No? You weren't there? Ahh... That just makes you an a s s, right?
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| I wonder how Pat Robertson will spin this. Did West Virginia recently elect an activist judge or something? Approve gay marriage? |
And this is relevant because every American follows Pat Robertson and believes what he says. Right? You do believe that don't you?
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| I'm being harsh in the face of a horrible tragedy because we keep seeing American voters doing exactly the same thing that's causing so much death in the Middle East and the reason an American president is rendering Iraqi babies down into a handful of carbon with phosphorus bombs. |
Maybe you're right about Americans not understanding English, because I am having a boatload of trouble figuring out what the hell you're talking about here... I'm assuming that you're implying that religion has played a key role in the Iraq war due to the fact that a majority of right-wing Christians voted Bush into office. And, I'm glad you saw, or didn't see, that Italian documentary about the phosphorus bombs and were able to translate that from an isolated incident to the carpet bombing of pediatric wards. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: |
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This is just a classic case of someone (the op) deciding to pay extra close attention to word usage when nobody else is. Usually 'it's a miracle' is closer to 'wow, I'm so relieved' than 'I firmly believe that God swooped in and did all that' regardless of where the expression came from. Might as well get mad at the phrase insh'Allah because it has the word God in it when I assume that a lot of people just use it in the sense that "well, I certainly hope so".
Once again, the only way to get rid of this is with some Ithkuil. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| keithinkorea wrote: |
Obviously it is a tragedy. Mindmetoo's comments aren't very nice.
Still to be fair the Chinese regularly have much worse mining tragedies, I guess it must be because they are godless heathens I don't think American or western lives are intrinsically more important than any other people. |
No but we seem to place a different value on human life. And you're not accounting for this.
In any case, are you implying or suggesting that because the Chinese regularly have much worse mining tragedies, that what just happened in the U.S. isn't that important? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
This is just a classic case of someone (the op) deciding to pay extra close attention to word usage when nobody else is. Usually 'it's a miracle' is closer to 'wow, I'm so relieved' than 'I firmly believe that God swooped in and did all that' regardless of where the expression came from. Might as well get mad at the phrase insh'Allah because it has the word God in it when I assume that a lot of people just use it in the sense that "well, I certainly hope so".
Once again, the only way to get rid of this is with some Ithkuil. |
Will Ithkuil help me make better sense out of "Americans don't understand English"? or his use of "hillbillies" to apparently dehumanize people who just died a tragic death? Because maybe I'm misinterpreting his word usage here, too. |
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