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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
Yeah. What bigverne said. I've found the general coverage of the Sydney "race riots" to be very pc and liberal. I'm seeing story after story emphasising the acts of "white" criminals, and hearing very little about crimes being committed by other groups. The day after the "riots", a large Lebanese group went on a rampage in a white area smashing cars and even stabbed someone, I believe. Yet the media hardly touched that racially motivated crime. It was still awash with condemnation for the racial crimes of white Australians.
I repeat: I am yet to hear a credible source deny that the crime rate is disproportionately high among Lebanese youths. |
What was funny about the Sydney riots was the discription of disorganised white rioters as 'gangs of whites', and Lebanese gang members as 'Lebanese youths'. Talk about biased. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
By the way, bangbayed. I think you're the one who should consider washing his mouth out. Are you more interested in intellectual debate or rude and offensive macho posturing? I have no interest in the latter as it smacks of childishness and vanity. Seriously, can't you see the irony of using the epithet "O'Reilly" in the midst of a tirade which was itself very O'Reilly-esque? |
Thought it was a fitting reply to your avatar. Or does that surprise you? |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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BIG VERNE HAS RETURNED!
Meh. whatever. I'm still waiting for you to reply to this one, or did you just crawl away and think it was forgotten?
| bangbayed wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Or perhaps if you put up an argument in favour of muslim immigration and its benefits to the West. However, I will assume that you will be sticking to your tried and tested method of pathetic one line retorts with hardly an argument in sight. |
The reason I refuse to debate that question is, besides the slippery slope weakness of it, your argument is dependent on the assumption that each race or creed that immigrates to a country has inherent qualities that other races or creeds do not. That is a dangerous argument that leads to justifications of superiority. This is clearly a point of view that has been demonstrated on this thread.
You could say that alll races, creeds and cultures have their own strengths and weaknesses, but the truth is, every person in the world has their own strengths and weaknesses .
And to try to define the strengths and weaknesses of a race or creed on some ESL message board does injustice not only to the peoples talked about, but to the person who thinks they know enough about them to define them. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| I agree that there may be some danger in discriminating against entire groups of people. However, this is a necessary evil when it comes to ensuring the well-being of your own nation. Muslim immigration has been a failure in virtually every country it has occured in, and it makes little sense to continue with it. In the end, immigration policy should be established on one basis only. Namely, what is in the best interests of the country. Large scale muslim immigration is clearly not, and immigrating to a rich country is not an inherent God given right, but a privelege. Such measures will eventually have to be taken as the non-integration of large muslim minorities leads to widespread civil strife. Such outcomes are highly unlikely with other immigrant groups. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Muslim immigration has been a failure in virtually every country it has occured in, and it makes little sense to continue with it. |
really?
I thought Canada is doing pretty durn good.
And the us? Well, pardon me for ignoring 9/11 but it seems that the GRAND majority of Muslims in the US seem to be fitting in pretty well as well don't you think? |
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patchy
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
The first link refers to crime by area, not by race. |
From that link:
"The Bureau also pointed out that in fact rapes by multiple perpetrators occur with greater frequency in NSW's rural areas, where fewer Lebanese Muslims live. Further, it revealed that in 1999, 70 sexual assaults, out of a total of 120 in Bankstown, were charged to one man, from an Anglo-Australian background."
There are definite allusions to race: there is mention that in NSW's rural areas where gang rapes occur with greater frequency, fewer Lebanese Muslims live there.
It also mentions race again in the next part where it states that out of 120 sexual assaults in Bankstown, where a high concentration of Muslim Lebanese live, 70 of those assaults were perpetrated by a white man (an Anglo-Australian).
Therefore it is not unreasonable to infer from these statistics that:
1) Gang rapes do not occur in highest frequency in areas where Muslim Lebanese live.
2) Out of the 120 rapes that occurred in a 2 year period in heavily Muslim Lebanese-populated Bankstown, 70 (or the majority) of the rapes were not committed by Muslim Lebanese people.
| Quote: |
| It is not isolated to Lebanese, and therefore pretty useless in determining Lebanese crime rates. |
The figures quoted in this report ARE "isolating" or singling out the Lebanese: it is talking about Bankstown where there is an overwhelmingly high concentration of Lebanese; and the the facts contained in these statistics appear to refute your (and others') anecdotally-based assertion that the Lebanese are responsible for a crime wave of gang rapes anbd rapes in general in NSW.
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| The second link contains a claim that statistics are being gathered, yet no statistics are to be found. Here is the Australian Bureau of Statistics. You are welcome to search for statistics that do not exist if you wish. |
It is referring to the fact that more precise statistics are in the process of being gathered. There are already statistics that exist about the incidence of rape and the locality of the rape and the race of rapist(s). These seem to point away from the Lebanese Muslims and towards the Anglo population as the main perpetrators of rape:
1) The highest incidence of gang rapes in NSW occur in rural areas where fewer Lebanese Muslims live.
2) The majority of rapes that occurred in Bankstown over a recent 2-year period was by a non-Muslim Lebanese man, by an Anglo-Australian. (Who knows, his victims might have included Lebanese women as Bankstown is full of Muslim Lebanese).
And these statistics are from the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics.
| shakuhachi wrote: |
| Anyway, patchy, you seem to have a strong interest in 'proving' that whitey is evil and racist. |
I have a strong interest in defending a minority against an unfair accusation, one that is not supported by statistics.
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| Here is something racist for you - I would prefer that someone that lacks sympathy for their 'fellow Australians' .... |
Muslim Lebanese are also 'fellow Australians'.
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| .... just because they are white remain in the country of their ancestors. |
Maybe you should apply the same racist (as you brazenly admit it is) sentiment to yourself and go back to Japan as you seem to lack "sympathy" for the Lebanese Australians who are being unfairly accused of something that is not borne out by the facts.
And you lack "sympathy" for non-white victims of rape as white Australians aren't the only people in Australia who are the victims of rape. You're racially selective in whom you show your "sympathy" to.
From the figures above it seems that whites are the main racial group involved in gang rapes as well as in non-gang related rapes. Why don't the whites riot against themselves, you could very well ask, if they're going to be doing any rioting at all? And how many victims of the Bankstown rapist who had 70 rapes to his name were non-white? And Bankstown is an area where whites could almost legitimately claim that they're a minority. Why don't you show the same "sympathy" to the people of Bankstown? Maybe because the rapist was a white guy? And maybe because your 'sympathy' was insincere in the first place?
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| Its funny how white racism is just SO BAD but people still try to come to my country. |
Yeah, it is funny, isn't it.
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| A little advice, Shakuhachi: your sturm and drang about the 'plight' of the whites in Australia would sound a shade more credible if you stopped referring to them as "whitey". |
Actually I was talking about your racism against whites, not the plight of whites in Australia. "Whitey" might be a word you would use (or maybe another) if you would just drop the act and say what you think about whites. |
I don't use discriminatory words unlike you ("Lebs") because I don't treat people of different races much differently to me, unlike you.
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You are not unique here - more than half a dozen people with exactly the same opinions and same background as yourself have come and gone since I joined daves, which was how I was able to pick you out as a Kyopo right away.
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It's not very hard to have picked out I was a gyopo from my first posts here on Dave's; I never hid the fact I was. And you're not the only who picked up that I was a gyopo either. You seem quite obsessed about race, especially for someone who claims to be "non-racist", as you do.
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| That should tell you something - stop acting out a stereotype and find some compassion for fellow human beings, even if they are white. |
And what stereotype is that? That people of Korean ethnicity defend people of another race or religion against unfair and racist accusations? What a BAD "stereotype". |
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patchy
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: |
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quote:shakuhachi
"�ʴ� anti racist�� �༼�� �ϸ鼭 ���ο� ���ؼ� ���� ���������� �ϰ� �ֳ�. ������ �̿��ϸ� �ѱ��� ��� ������ �ּ���. �ѱ������� ��ȸ�� �ʰ��� �������� �����ڸ� �����ϴϱ� ������ �����̰���?
������ ����� ������. �� �̷� ����� �������̶�� �������� ������ �� �ɱ��? �� ������ ������ ���� �ƴմϴ�. ������ �� ������ ����� ���Դϴ�."
TRANSLATION:
"You pretend to be anti-racist, but you are, and you are very racially
discriminatory against whites.
Stay in Korea forever with hating whites. You can stay in Korea as Korea
society accepts racists like you.
I feel really bad, why should I admit the person like you as my
compatriot...
This thing is about your rude way of saying not just the racism things." |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
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| Muslim immigration has been a failure in virtually every country it has occured in, and it makes little sense to continue with it. |
really?
I thought Canada is doing pretty durn good.
And the us? Well, pardon me for ignoring 9/11 but it seems that the GRAND majority of Muslims in the US seem to be fitting in pretty well as well don't you think? |
Wait till the muslim population of either Canada or the US reaches around 10%, as it has done in France and the Netherlands. Then you will be able to judge the relative success of muslim immigration and their levels of integration. The trouble with muslim immigrants is that for many of them, their primary loyalty will never be to Canada or the USA, but to the global Umma, and all too many of them are intent on reshaping Western society rather than accepting and adapting to it. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Muslim immigration has been a failure in virtually every country it has occured in, and it makes little sense to continue with it. |
Once again, facts and figures, please. Or are you above them? Jeez, talk about your broad statements, you could land a 747 on that. This is, ironically, in a post where you admit to a previous fallacy in making generalizations. But does that stop you? Let's see:
| Quote: |
| Wait till the muslim population of either Canada or the US reaches around 10%, as it has done in France and the Netherlands. Then you will be able to judge the relative success of muslim immigration and their levels of integration. The trouble with muslim immigrants is that for many of them, their primary loyalty will never be to Canada or the USA, but to the global Umma, and all too many of them are intent on reshaping Western society rather than accepting and adapting to it. |
Someone accused me of comparing apples and oranges, but this beats me. For one thing, places like France and the Netherlands have a long history of colonial and postcolonial issues with its former subjects such as the Algerians, who make up the majority of muslims in France. These issues go far in explaining the recent riots there. Connection with the Sydney riots, please? Of course I shouldn't have put it past you to try to tie that in for your benefit.
Canada and the US are countries founded by immigrants and owe their development to them. European countries owe their development to colonialism and monarchies. Liberal as they may seem to be, there are deep issues with race and immigration in these countries. Is it any surprise that immigrants encounter difficulties and in turn vent their frustration? And Australia? Well any country that started off as a penal colony is bound to have problems with new inmates. There. I said it.
Really, do you have anything else other than the "muslim immigration is a pox on white society" response? And I say "white society" because you don't seem to be mentioning any non-white societies. Or is that an oxymoron to you?
Oh yeah, before I forget...10%??? WTF?  What orifice did you retrieve that from?
Last edited by bangbayed on Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:02 am; edited 3 times in total |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| patchy wrote: |
It also mentions race again in the next part where it states that out of 120 sexual assaults in Bankstown, where a high concentration of Muslim Lebanese live, 70 of those assaults were perpetrated by a white man (an Anglo-Australian).
Therefore it is not unreasonable to infer from these statistics that:
1) Gang rapes do not occur in highest frequency in areas where Muslim Lebanese live.
2) Out of the 120 rapes that occurred in a 2 year period in heavily Muslim Lebanese-populated Bankstown, 70 (or the majority) of the rapes were not committed by Muslim Lebanese people. |
You seem to be suffering from logical retardation. It doesnt matter if there are more crimes in total number elsewhere - Lebanese are an ethnic minority so it is unlikely they will get anywhere near the total number. What is important is the amount of crimes committed by Lebanese per capita - it is the % of the community involved in criminal activity that determines the level of the problem, not the total number of crimes. In the above 'statistics' (remember, you have not shown a primary source), may we assume that if 70 of the rapes were from non-lebanese, then 50 of them were committed by Lebanese? Which takes me to my next point.
| patchy wrote: |
| The figures quoted in this report ARE "isolating" or singling out the Lebanese: it is talking about Bankstown where there is an overwhelmingly high concentration of Lebanese; and the the facts contained in these statistics appear to refute your (and others') anecdotally-based assertion that the Lebanese are responsible for a crime wave of gang rapes anbd rapes in general in NSW. |
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown is Lebanese or has Lebanese ancestry. According to the statistics that you presented, it means that Lebanese are committing 40% of the rapes despite being only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown. And I havent even mentioned your logical fallacy that Lebanese are only committing crimes in the areas they are in - indeed, Lebanese gangs often pile themselves into cars to commit crimes in other areas.
| patchy wrote: |
| Maybe you should apply the same racist (as you brazenly admit it is) sentiment to yourself and go back to Japan as you seem to lack "sympathy" for the Lebanese Australians who are being unfairly accused of something that is not borne out by the facts. |
I am white, not Japanese.
| patchy wrote: |
| And you lack "sympathy" for non-white victims of rape as white Australians aren't the only people in Australia who are the victims of rape. You're racially selective in whom you show your "sympathy" to. |
Where on earth do I lack sympathy with non-white victims of rape?! I feel sorry for anyone raped. However, white Australians are the main targets of Lebanese gang rape and crime, which is what we were discussing here.
| patchy wrote: |
| It's not very hard to have picked out I was a gyopo from my first posts here on Dave's; I never hid the fact I was. And you're not the only who picked up that I was a gyopo either. You seem quite obsessed about race, especially for someone who claims to be "non-racist", as you do. |
You never came out and said you were. The fact that I was able to pick you out right away on this faceless, raceless internet should tell you that you are acting out a stereotype.
| patchy wrote: |
| And what stereotype is that? That people of Korean ethnicity defend people of another race or religion against unfair and racist accusations? What a BAD "stereotype". |
No, the one where the ethnic Korean has an inferiority complex towards the majority population expressed through hostility. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Once again, facts and figures, please. |
So, I need facts and figures to prove that muslim immigration has been a failure? Or perhaps I should point to the recent riots in France, or the murder of Theo Van Gogh, or the 7th July bombings, or the muslim ghettoes that spring up everywhere where muslim immigration occurs. In Europe, muslims have the highest rates of unemployment and the lowest rates of integration, in terms of intermarriage. On any objective basis, it hasn't been a success story. On a more pessimistic basis, it threatens the very stability of Europe. The French 'intifada' is just a precursor of much worse to come, as two diametrically opposed cultures attempt to live together.
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| For one thing, places like France and the Netherlands have a long history of colonial and postcolonial issues with its former subjects such as the Algerians, who make up the majority of muslims in France. These issues go far in explaining the recent riots there. |
The Vietnamese were colonial subjects of France, there are hundreds of thousands of them there, and yet they have not rioted. Why? Because they have not cut themselves off from French society and their cultural values are not opposed to Western ones. Hence, there is less friction. Moreover, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that the majority of muslims in Holland are from Morocco, which was never a Dutch colony.
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| Connection with the Sydney riots, please? |
I was making no connection between the Sydney riots, but merely responding to someone who said that muslim immigration to North America has been a 'success'. Maybe you should brush up on your reading.
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| Liberal as they may seem to be, there are deep issues with race and immigration in these countries. |
You are correct. In acknowledging this fact, perhaps you could explain the logic of importing millions of people, from a totally different, and opposing cultural background, into this environment.
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| Is it any surprise that immigrants encounter difficulties and in turn vent their frustration? |
But the question is, why do some immigrants not encounter such problems, and for the most part, not vent their frustrations in mass riots and membership of Jihad organisations? Many immigrants mix quite well in the West and make great contributions to society. Where muslim immigration is concerned, this is highly debateable.
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| And I say "white society" because you don't seem to be mentioning any non-white societies. |
Most muslims immigrate to rich, developed nations, with lax immigration policies, which are invariably white, or are you too stupid to see that? My chief concern is with muslim immigration to the UK, and to Europe. However, that is not to say I am unaware of the problems caused by Islam in the rest of the world. A quick look at most of the muslim world should be enough to tell you that a growing muslim population is not to be welcomed.
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| Oh yeah, before I forget...10%??? WTF? What orifice did you retrieve that from? |
The muslim populations of Holland and France are around 10%. What exactly are you disputing? Both of these countries have large muslim populations, and very serious problems in dealing with them. If Australia and the USA ever achieve such wondrous diversity, they will experience all the delights that such immigration brings. |
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patchy
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| patchy wrote: |
It also mentions race again in the next part where it states that out of 120 sexual assaults in Bankstown, where a high concentration of Muslim Lebanese live, 70 of those assaults were perpetrated by a white man (an Anglo-Australian).
Therefore it is not unreasonable to infer from these statistics that:
1) Gang rapes do not occur in highest frequency in areas where Muslim Lebanese live.
2) Out of the 120 rapes that occurred in a 2 year period in heavily Muslim Lebanese-populated Bankstown, 70 (or the majority) of the rapes were not committed by Muslim Lebanese people. |
You seem to be suffering from logical retardation. It doesnt matter if there are more crimes in total number elsewhere - Lebanese are an ethnic minority so it is unlikely they will get anywhere near the total number. |
Overseas-born Australians are underrepresented in crime, and they have been for the last 40 years - "Review of Commonwealth Law Enforcement Arrangements". http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/Parlment/HansArt.nsf/d891a0806177d17eca256d100026e9aa/ca256d11000bd3aa4a25642800673e6b?OpenDocument
This means that Australian-born citizens (of which the majority are Anglos and Aboriginals) are OVER-REPRESENTED in crime.
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| What is important is the amount of crimes committed by Lebanese per capita - it is the % of the community involved in criminal activity that determines the level of the problem, not the total number of crimes. |
In a regional breakdown of gang rapes, rural areas had the highest incidence of gang rapes, and this is where fewer Muslim Lebanese reside.
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| In the above 'statistics' (remember, you have not shown a primary source), |
I have shown a primary source. I have clearly stated that these statistics come from the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics.
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| may we assume that if 70 of the rapes were from non-lebanese, then 50 of them were committed by Lebanese? Which takes me to my next point. |
No, you cannot assume that. All it says is that 70 of the 120 rapes in Bankstown in a 2-year period were committed by one man - an Anglo-Australian.
It doesn't say that these were the only rapes committed by a white person in that time period in Bankstown.
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| patchy wrote: |
| The figures quoted in this report ARE "isolating" or singling out the Lebanese: it is talking about Bankstown where there is an overwhelmingly high concentration of Lebanese; and the the facts contained in these statistics appear to refute your (and others') anecdotally-based assertion that the Lebanese are responsible for a crime wave of gang rapes anbd rapes in general in NSW. |
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown is Lebanese or has Lebanese ancestry. According to the statistics that you presented, it means that Lebanese are committing 40% of the rapes despite being only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown. |
As I have pointed out, the statistics leave it wide open as to who committed the other 50 rapes. They could have been committed by whites, Asians, Middle Easterners or any combination of these nationalities. And BTW what percentage of Bankstown is white?
If you are going to do any assuming at all, a more reasonable assumption to make than the one that you have made that the rest of the 120 rapes were committed by people of one ethnicity, the Lebanese, would be that this man was not the only white rapist in Bankstown in that 2-year period, as Australian-born people are over-represented in crime, and gang rapes are more prevalent in rural areas where more Australian-born people live.
And if I were going to make generalizations of the kind that you do, I would make the generalization based on the fact that a lone white man was responsible for 70 rapes, that whites have a tendency to commit serial rapes (and gang rapes) more than other ethnicities in Australia.
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| And I havent even mentioned your logical fallacy that Lebanese are only committing crimes in the areas they are in, indeed, Lebanese gangs often pile themselves into cars to commit crimes in other areas. |
You have shown no evidence to back up your claim that Lebanese gangs travel to rural areas and engage in gang rape. There have been some famous cases of gang rapes in rural areas reported in the media over the years. Most of the perpetrators were of Anglo-Australian origin. This supports the general finding that the Australian-born are over-represented in crime and have been so for the last 40 years.
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| patchy wrote: |
| Maybe you should apply the same racist (as you brazenly admit it is) sentiment to yourself and go back to Japan as you seem to lack "sympathy" for the Lebanese Australians who are being unfairly accused of something that is not borne out by the facts. |
I am white, not Japanese. |
Whatever country your ancestors are from is not important. What is important is that this is a thread about racism and you have accused me of racism and yet you are openly racist by telling Australians of non-Anglo ancestry they should go back to "their country". (And the aboriginals too who don't agree with you about anything you have said in this thread? Where do you suggest they go?)
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| patchy wrote: |
| And you lack "sympathy" for non-white victims of rape as white Australians aren't the only people in Australia who are the victims of rape. You're racially selective in whom you show your "sympathy" to. |
Where on earth do I lack sympathy with non-white victims of rape?! I feel sorry for anyone raped. |
No, because you ignore in this discussion the non-white victims of rape. It is known that one Anglo man raped 70 people in Bankstown. From the population statistics of Bankstown, it can be surmised that not a small number of his victims were of ethnicities other than Anglo-Australian (unless he had some fetish for raping only women of a certain race). You don't show the same outrage against this man (or against his religion and culture) or the same sympathy for his victims that you do in the case of the Lebanese gang and their one white victim; for instance you don't call for decreased Anglo immigration to Australia or decreased Anglo emigration to other countries.
As I recall, you were accused in this forum of raping somebody once, a Korean lady (non-white) after you revealed you had sexual intercourse with her while she was inebriated and unconscious. You didn't express much sympathy for her when posters complained about your behavior.
You should tell yourself to leave this country instead of remaining here and being a hypocrite. I'm sure Korea doesn't need non-citizen rapists working and living amongst them, and especially one who is racially biased against them.
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| However, white Australians are the main targets of Lebanese gang rape and crime, which is what we were discussing here. |
Correction: in ONE case of a Lebanese gang, the target was a white woman.
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| patchy wrote: |
| It's not very hard to have picked out I was a gyopo from my first posts here on Dave's; I never hid the fact I was. And you're not the only who picked up that I was a gyopo either. You seem quite obsessed about race, especially for someone who claims to be "non-racist", as you do. |
You never came out and said you were. |
Should I have to?
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| The fact that I was able to pick you out right away on this faceless, raceless internet should tell you that you are acting out a stereotype. |
| patchy wrote: |
| And what stereotype is that? That people of Korean ethnicity defend people of another race or religion against unfair and racist accusations? What a BAD "stereotype". |
| Quote: |
| No, the one where the ethnic Korean has an inferiority complex towards the majority population expressed through hostility. |
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Well, I criticize Koreans aplenty too and I hardly think that means I have an inferiority complex towards Koreans. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| patchy wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
| patchy wrote: |
It also mentions race again in the next part where it states that out of 120 sexual assaults in Bankstown, where a high concentration of Muslim Lebanese live, 70 of those assaults were perpetrated by a white man (an Anglo-Australian).
Therefore it is not unreasonable to infer from these statistics that:
1) Gang rapes do not occur in highest frequency in areas where Muslim Lebanese live.
2) Out of the 120 rapes that occurred in a 2 year period in heavily Muslim Lebanese-populated Bankstown, 70 (or the majority) of the rapes were not committed by Muslim Lebanese people. |
You seem to be suffering from logical retardation. It doesnt matter if there are more crimes in total number elsewhere - Lebanese are an ethnic minority so it is unlikely they will get anywhere near the total number. |
Overseas-born Australians are underrepresented in crime, and they have been for the last 40 years - "Review of Commonwealth Law Enforcement Arrangements". http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/Parlment/HansArt.nsf/d891a0806177d17eca256d100026e9aa/ca256d11000bd3aa4a25642800673e6b?OpenDocument
This means that Australian-born citizens (of which the majority are Anglos and Aboriginals) are OVER-REPRESENTED in crime.
| Quote: |
| What is important is the amount of crimes committed by Lebanese per capita - it is the % of the community involved in criminal activity that determines the level of the problem, not the total number of crimes. |
In a regional breakdown of gang rapes, rural areas had the highest incidence of gang rapes, and this is where fewer Muslim Lebanese reside.
| Quote: |
| In the above 'statistics' (remember, you have not shown a primary source), |
I have shown a primary source. I have clearly stated that these statistics come from the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics.
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| may we assume that if 70 of the rapes were from non-lebanese, then 50 of them were committed by Lebanese? Which takes me to my next point. |
No, you cannot assume that. All it says is that 70 of the 120 rapes in Bankstown in a 2-year period were committed by one man - an Anglo-Australian.
It doesn't say that these were the only rapes committed by a white person in that time period in Bankstown.
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| patchy wrote: |
| The figures quoted in this report ARE "isolating" or singling out the Lebanese: it is talking about Bankstown where there is an overwhelmingly high concentration of Lebanese; and the the facts contained in these statistics appear to refute your (and others') anecdotally-based assertion that the Lebanese are responsible for a crime wave of gang rapes anbd rapes in general in NSW. |
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown is Lebanese or has Lebanese ancestry. According to the statistics that you presented, it means that Lebanese are committing 40% of the rapes despite being only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown. |
As I have pointed out, the statistics leave it wide open as to who committed the other 50 rapes. They could have been committed by whites, Asians, Middle Easterners or any combination of these nationalities. And BTW what percentage of Bankstown is white?
If you are going to do any assuming at all, a more reasonable assumption to make than the one that you have made that the rest of the 120 rapes were committed by people of one ethnicity, the Lebanese, would be that this man was not the only white rapist in Bankstown in that 2-year period, as Australian-born people are over-represented in crime, and gang rapes are more prevalent in rural areas where more Australian-born people live.
And if I were going to make generalizations of the kind that you do, I would make the generalization based on the fact that a lone white man was responsible for 70 rapes, that whites have a tendency to commit serial rapes (and gang rapes) more than other ethnicities in Australia.
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| And I havent even mentioned your logical fallacy that Lebanese are only committing crimes in the areas they are in, indeed, Lebanese gangs often pile themselves into cars to commit crimes in other areas. |
You have shown no evidence to back up your claim that Lebanese gangs travel to rural areas and engage in gang rape. There have been some famous cases of gang rapes in rural areas reported in the media over the years. Most of the perpetrators were of Anglo-Australian origin. This supports the general finding that the Australian-born are over-represented in crime and have been so for the last 40 years.
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| patchy wrote: |
| Maybe you should apply the same racist (as you brazenly admit it is) sentiment to yourself and go back to Japan as you seem to lack "sympathy" for the Lebanese Australians who are being unfairly accused of something that is not borne out by the facts. |
I am white, not Japanese. |
Whatever country your ancestors are from is not important. What is important is that this is a thread about racism and you have accused me of racism and yet you are openly racist by telling Australians of non-Anglo ancestry they should go back to "their country". (And the aboriginals too who don't agree with you about anything you have said in this thread? Where do you suggest they go?)
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| patchy wrote: |
| And you lack "sympathy" for non-white victims of rape as white Australians aren't the only people in Australia who are the victims of rape. You're racially selective in whom you show your "sympathy" to. |
Where on earth do I lack sympathy with non-white victims of rape?! I feel sorry for anyone raped. |
No, because you ignore in this discussion the non-white victims of rape. It is known that one Anglo man raped 70 people in Bankstown. From the population statistics of Bankstown, it can be surmised that not a small number of his victims were of ethnicities other than Anglo-Australian (unless he had some fetish for raping only women of a certain race). You don't show the same outrage against this man (or against his religion and culture) or the same sympathy for his victims that you do in the case of the Lebanese gang and their one white victim; for instance you don't call for decreased Anglo immigration to Australia or decreased Anglo emigration to other countries.
As I recall, you were accused in this forum of raping somebody once, a Korean lady (non-white) after you revealed you had sexual intercourse with her while she was inebriated and unconscious. You didn't express much sympathy for her when posters complained about your behavior.
You should tell yourself to leave this country instead of remaining here and being a hypocrite. I'm sure Korea doesn't need non-citizen rapists working and living amongst them, and especially one who is racially biased against them.
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| However, white Australians are the main targets of Lebanese gang rape and crime, which is what we were discussing here. |
Correction: in ONE case of a Lebanese gang, the target was a white woman.
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| patchy wrote: |
| It's not very hard to have picked out I was a gyopo from my first posts here on Dave's; I never hid the fact I was. And you're not the only who picked up that I was a gyopo either. You seem quite obsessed about race, especially for someone who claims to be "non-racist", as you do. |
You never came out and said you were. |
Should I have to?
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| The fact that I was able to pick you out right away on this faceless, raceless internet should tell you that you are acting out a stereotype. |
| patchy wrote: |
| And what stereotype is that? That people of Korean ethnicity defend people of another race or religion against unfair and racist accusations? What a BAD "stereotype". |
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| No, the one where the ethnic Korean has an inferiority complex towards the majority population expressed through hostility. |
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Well, I criticize Koreans aplenty too and I hardly think that means I have an inferiority complex towards Koreans. |
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vertical loser
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm certainly not for passing judgement on entire races/cultures. It's "racist". Which is why I wonder why the comments about "the Australians" by the Lebanese in question have not been condemned. Is racism only from the majority to the minority? If I go to China and say "The Chinese are stupid and arrogant" is that not just as racist as if I said it in Australia?
I noticed the Hong Kong government had no problem this last week with classifying the minority as "racist." A recent bill forbids "racist" employment packages which favour expats, giving them perks locals don't normally get. Strangely, no accusations of Hong Kongese being racist in any regard has been forthcoming.
As for the Sydney riots, many Anglo "gang members" hae been arrested. Not a single member of the "Muslim youth" involved in the violence has been arrested. I hardly see that as good evidence that Australia is racist. Indeed it seems that the reverse may be true - other "races" getting a better deal.
We have this kind of Protestant guilt complex in many wetsern countries where we engage in self-flagellation. Not without due merit on occasion, as "the West" has done its fair share of damage in the world. But you don't really see it in many other countries. I don't think Koreans or Chinese are spending a large amount of time in angst criticising their own "racist" tendencies. They spend far more time criticising "foreigners" for being racist.
Not long go my mainland Chinese wife and I were screamed down by a Hong Kongese man on a public bus in Hong Kong. "How many men have you slept with! You are a hooker!" he screamed at my wife. The problem it seems was that I am a "foreigner", and my wife was with the dreded 'guilo'. But of course there is no racism in Hong Kong, so I must have imagined it all. Strangely, I don't recall ever seing an Australian man screaming at a Chinese man in Australia and calling his Australian wife a 'ho. But we are "racists", so it must happen all the time. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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bigverne,
What I have a problem with is your insistence that ALL muslim immigration be halted due to some kind of 'predetermination' you believe muslims have to refuse to integrate into society. Reminds me of conspiracy theorists. You can nitpick my points to pieces, but your basic argument stays the same. I challenge you to find one other person who wants to take this issue beyond the Lebanese/Sydney stage and make a grand condemnation of ALL MUSLIM IMMIGRATION.
Yeah, didn't think so. One wonders if you ever got the satire of Swift's "A Modest Proposal", because you seem like you would enjoy baby flesh very much. |
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