Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Hater Depot]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/politics/07armor.html?ei=5094&en=6a69abccc77d978f&hp=&ex=1136696400&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage&adxnnlx=1136642192-CplvF+UbnLReqwsAswCDkA

[Wrench]

Its not Bush its the Pentagon. You know equipment in the military is really expensive. These plates are extremly heavy as well.

[mithridates]

It costs $260 to outfit a marine with those plates.

[mindmetoo]

[Gopher]

Please keep in mind that the Marine Corps's budget is usually the leftover budget from the Navy.

It is not so simple a problem as some here seem to be alleging or implying. Again, you are failing to account for bureaucratic complexities, particularly complexities in the Pentagon's procurement system, and you are being much too simplistic in your analysis, seeming to believe that W. Bush can wave a pen and do anything.

That being said, this is an issue that the Pentagon could be handling better.

In any case, I did not see the President's name, Administration, or any of his policies referenced in this article. While I am not "a Bush fan" and I am not interested in "explaining this one away," I would like to better understand this tendency to chronically blame W. Bush for each and every problem in the U.S., indeed, in the world. Really, it isn't even annoying anymore...I just want to understand the mechanics of this knee-jerk reaction.

[Hater Depot]

It's a two-plus year, ongoing scandal which American conservatives have decided to ignore or pretend doesn't exist. If this were a Democratic administration they would be howling in murderous outrage rather than the glib excuses they are so fond of. The chain of command ends with the President and there so does the responsibility. Perhaps he can't wave his pen. But he can damn well make it a priority and fire the people who are directly responsible. That he hasn't is a shocking neglect of his duties.

[Grotto]

Well said Hater depot

The blame begins and ends at the top. That it hasnt been addressed or dealt with in a timely fashion speaks volumes....especially when the value of a mans life is less than 260$

[Octavius Hite]

Conservative math: 260$ for plates or thousands of $ for rehab and surgeries or 500,000$ death payout to the family.

God I love the conservatives and their funny math skills.

[EFLtrainer]

He's the all-powerful C-in-C when it's time to trample the Bill of Rights.

He's the all-powerful C-inC when it's time to order kids to their deaths and order shoot first rules of engagement that results in civilian deaths.

But he's not the C-in-C when it's time to protect the kids he's sending to their deaths?

Bullshit.

[VanIslander]

[Wrench]

[riley]

I read the article and I have two points for this one.
The first is that the military commanders (I think we can all agree that they are much more experienced at this than G.W.) made this decision for a reason. The article I read (washington post, I think) made the point that the body armor is continually being upgraded. Maybe that's not fast enough for the internet armchair generals, but it is happening. If you've read anything about military weapon history, or even military history, you would know that there has been a long and continuing argument over speed vs. protection. If you put too much body armor onto someone, it will make it harder for them to move. The current armor may be lighter but it still has to take up room which would make it harder for someone to move around. (example, think of your backpack on a crowded subway. It might not be heavy but it still can interfere with your actions at times) The experienced officers made this decision ages ago. I read that the current armor was made in 1999 before Bush was in office.
The second comes from the first point, the study was made by the Pentagon. I assume this means that they are worried about the effectiveness of the armor and want improvements. In fact the article talked about new armor plates (ceramic, or composites) being developed. So things are changing.
It sounds like people are mixing up the body armor with the armored Humvee scandal. That was different because they had the proper armored vehicles but chose not to use them or to equip vehicles properly even though they could. In the case of the body armor, they don't have any other type but are trying to do better.

Please avoid your knee jerk reactions to automatically blame Bush.
Also, I hope people understand I am not defending Bush here, I think I have shown that I do not like him or his actions.
Finally, I hope there is someone here who could give us more info about the body armor, maybe someone who has worn it?

[Gopher]

[Gopher]

[TheUrbanMyth]