Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Hawkeye2]

Hi All,

I'm seeking the collective wisdom of the board members on this family issue, which seems to highlight the different philosophy Koreans and Americans may have on raising and supporting their children.

Our son is 24-years old. He is currently unemployed and has dropped out of college three times. He currently has approximately $6,000 dollars in student loans to repay.

Now he says that he wants to attend an 18-month professional golfer's college in Arizona, the tuition of which is $25,000. He says that he can secure another student loan to cover the tuition. His mother has encouraged him by volunteering to cover his living expenses while he is attending this golf school.

I say that before we help him again, he must first get a full-time job to at least pay off his current student loan debt and demonstate his maturity and commitment.

He never held a full-time job when he was "between schools." He has scraped by on "easy" part-time jobs, living with friends, and the support he received from his extended family.

Not surprisingly, his grandparents and aunt, who had previously supported him after he decided to transfer to a four-year college but later dropped out, are no longer willing to help him.

His mother seems to think that she is obligated be an unconditional financial supporter of her only son while he tries to figure out what he wants to do. I also recognize the importance family support and I respect how Korean familes sacrifice for their children.

However, as I said, I think this young man needs find out what it's like to hold and work at a full time job before he
receives any more financial help.

Am I wrong in requiring this? I'm also concerned about the amount of debt he'll be under after he finishes this "college" and his ability to pay it back (given his current level of motivation and work ethic), but that's another issue.

I appreciate and look forward to any advice or insights from people who have made it through college and are now working hard to pay off student loans here in the rough and tumble world of Korean EFL.

By the way, my wife and I also live here in Korea and our son is visiting us now. I'm hoping that comments from you will help open our eyes so that we can have a meaningful discussion on this issue before he leaves.

Thanks and best for 2006!

Signed,

Choking on the prospect of son's quadruple bogey.

[justagirl]

Your son is 24 years old. He's an adult. It's time for him to grow up and become a man. If he wants to go to school, he can pay for it--all expenses of it.

He doesn't have a job and is living off his parents--this sounds like enabling to me. He'll milk as much as he can from his parents, because it's the easiest course of action/path of least resistance. I know--this sounds just like my older brother, who at 28, has finally moved out of my parent's home.

My parents paid less than $5,000 of my undergraduate costs, which totaled over $60,000. I went to Korea after I graduated and overpaid the principal on my loans every month. In 3 years, I paid off over $17,000 and became debt free.

I wish I had parents like you! You seem to be rewarding your son for his bad behavior (ie: your wife wanting to pay his living costs). I would have loved to have been rewarded for my GOOD behavior!

There's nothing wrong with being supportive of his decision, but giving him the money rather than having him earn it himself teaches him nothing about the value of money and the responsibility of hard work that earns it.

What about giving him a financial gift after you see a marked improvement in his levels of responsibility and dedication? Don't tell him it's a "reward," or he'll be "good" long enough to cash out. Just do it spontaneously after 6 or more months of improvement and growing up (if it happens).

justagirl (a 26-year-old)

[Sooke]

It's time for Dad to lay down the law. I wouldn't help him with golf school tuition until he at least made a stab at paying off his previous loan. I assume he must bee a pretty decent golfer if he's considering golf school, but to what ends is he working for? Is he going to try to get on the pro circut? Is he trying to become a pro at some golf club? Does he want to be a greenskeeper/greensmaster? Anyway, I think you shoud ask him what he's planning to do with his golf 'degree'.

It's not suprising that your wife is still willing to support him fully. It's still a fairly common thing over here for parents (especially mothers) to sacrifice EVERYTHING for their first born son.

Here's an example: my Korean girlfriend's brother in law (who married my gf's little sister) is the only son in his family. Being a male, he is obliged to do his military service. However, there is some law which allows daughters in a family to volunteer and 'take' the place of their brother. So, his family (very traditional Koreans) forced his older sister to volunteer for the army, thus nullifying his military obligation. They then forced his younger sister to work near Kunsan air base in Americatown. All the money she made went to her brother's university tuition and expenses. So he graduates, gets a so-so job and marries my gf's little sister. Before their wedding, her little sister and soon to be brother-in-law were singing the blues that they couldn't afford a honeymoon, so my girlfriend had a little money tucked-away offered 2 million won to pay for thir honeymoon, which they gratefully accepted.
A few weeks after the wedding we go to her little sister's house for dinner. My girlfriend asks to see pictures of the supposed honeymoon trip. Then we're told that instead of going on a honeymoon, they decided to buy a HUGE 60-odd inch TV with the money instead. This thing is bloddy massive. Anyway, my girlfriend is a little choked. So anyway, hubby comes home, plops down in front of the TV and snatches the remote from the two girls. My girlfriend says, "Hey, we were kinda watching that." And the Bro-in-law says, "My house, my TV. If you don't like it, get the hell out." So we did, despite the fact that the guy should've been acting sheepish because they lied about spending my gf's honeymoon money (They had told as days earlier that the honeymoon was beautifel, etc.)
This wasn't the first time this guy has acted like that. Our most recent meeting, he got drunk and demanded I marry my gf soon, because once i marry her, he thinks he can immigrate to Canada. He was saying things like "Sooke's a F*@king dog, but we need him to get into Canada." in my presence!!! (To top it off, the guy is my junior!!!!)

The point of my story is that this guy is an overentitled ass-hat who has had everything handed to him in life. His feelings of self importance and entitlement are because everyone has had to do things for him all his life, he's like an adult 5 year old.

Make your son work. You don't want him to be like this guy. There are already too many Korean princes walking around here, we don't need another one.

[Hawkeye2]

Thanks for the replies.

Something I've thought about since posting is whether his failure to complete a degree is the result of his motivation/attitude or the actual inability to do academic work due to an attention disorder or dyslexia or something. I've heard it said that some people just aren't cut out to go to college. If this is the case, will he be able to handle the classes at that golf college? Hmmm.

[chiaa]

Is he any good at golf?

Will this school allow him to make any kind of living in the world of golf after (if not pro, is her personable enough to be an instructor)?

Will he work hard while at golf school?

Do you have the financial means to do it with out putting you in the poor house?

If all these answers are a positive and I was his parent, I would give him the money after he spent six months working as a landscaper at a local course. He would work hard and learn a bit that will help him in the long run.

[chiaa]

[joe_doufu]

I got a credit card when I was a college student and began charging at age 18. Every time I maxed out, something came through and I was able to pay it off, so my limit just kept getting higher. I acquired a car loan, a student loan, and then more student loans for a Masters degree. I think as long as the credit was there, I would have kept charging.

When I was 27, I finally reached my limit. I had over US$80,000 of total debt: $23,000 of that was credit cards, about $30,000 in private loan, and $30,000 in low-interest student loan. When I really couldn't pay for food without asking my parents for money it was like a sea change, I learned financial responsibility in the course of about a week. Since then I've been very disciplined. I've made great progress on the loans and have 6 months of living expenses saved up. That was about 9 months ago.

So my point is, I think, your son has to hit that brick wall. As long as you're willing to open your wallet, he will take it for granted. Tell him NO. He won't starve. In fact you'll probably see him become resourceful and frugal. He knows half a dozen career options he cold take, other than golf school, that he hasn't mentioned to you.

[itaewonguy]

well obviously he didnt like the degree he was going for so he lost motivation. but this doesnt mean he should give a skill and try to make his income by playing golf!
I woulod advise him to complete his degree before we issue him any help!
he can cross credit on courses and choose another degree and finish that!
that way you have a degree, you keep the grandparents happy, parents happy and also doing the right thing by graduating!
also while he is finishing up his degree he should play golf to prepare himself for his new career path.. whats the hurry to play golf? its a sport where you can be any age to teach it, play it go pro etc...
finish the degree get a skill , then worry about hobby/careers..
its pretty selfish to waste money, time and abuse his grandparents , parents becuase he doesnt want to do it anymore!!

make his finish the degree! then support him in golf.. thats the DEAL!

[ajgeddes]

Sorry to highjack, but Sooke, ...... how didn't you push him out the window. What an A$$HAT! I don't think I could ever be in that person's presence again. Let alone some day be related to him. You should just go one day when he isn't at home and take the tv, just claim it was interest for the over due loan for your girlfriend.

People like that make me sick

[manlyboy]

Golf college? I'd rank that right up there with fashion modelling 101.

Sounds like he's been getting far too many carrots and not enough sticks.

[peppermint]

[EFLtrainer]

Is golf school supposed to be *hard* or something? Tell him to get a freakin' job. If he had any motivation whatsoever wouldn't he be doing anything and everything he could to make his dream come true?

Feel for you. It's got to be a parental nightmare - assuming you didn't encourage this shiftlessness. Seriously, if he had a dream and was a hard worker, why not? But being apparently lazy and irresponsible? I'd sooner send him into the military. And that's saying something.

[Swiss James]

I think you need a contingency plan for when he drops out of golf college and wants to enroll in the School of Rock

[RachaelRoo]

Dropped out of university 3 times!!?? Golf college??!!

Your son doesn't see education as a means of getting a good job, he sees it as a way to avoid a job.

I think your only chance is to refuse to support him whatsoever and hope he does something with his life before it's too late.

[Dan The Chainsawman]

Send him to Chainsaw juggling school. It worked wonders for me after I dropped out of underwater basket weaving college. Mind you teaching classes with only one hand can be a burden at times, but I manage.