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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: Hwang apology |
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| He's on TV right now apologising for having falsified data. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's already made it to MSNBC...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10811959/
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Updated: 9:40 p.m. ET Jan. 11, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - A disgraced stem cell researcher apologized Thursday at his first public appearance in almost three weeks, saying he takes full responsibility for fraudulent claims.
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Some of my students were speculating that he would continue to profess his innocence, blame underlings, etc. But it looks like he's finally figured out the game's over. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
It's already made it to MSNBC...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10811959/
| Quote: |
Updated: 9:40 p.m. ET Jan. 11, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - A disgraced stem cell researcher apologized Thursday at his first public appearance in almost three weeks, saying he takes full responsibility for fraudulent claims.
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Some of my students were speculating that he would continue to profess his innocence, blame underlings, etc. But it looks like he's finally figured out the game's over. |
My wife said he apologised for using fraudulent data, but denies knowing it was so. He puts the blame on the director of Mezmedi hospital, which he accuses of switching the cells without his knowledge. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| My wife said he apologised for using fraudulent data, but denies knowing it was so. He puts the blame on the director of Mezmedi hospital, which he accuses of switching the cells without his knowledge.[ |
Not only that, but he's promoting his stem cell growth. This guy is classic. I have a lot of respect for a guy who can take this kind of humiliation and still think he's world class.
In fairness, good for him. He's doing what's in his best interest...self preservation. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
It's already made it to MSNBC...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10811959/
| Quote: |
Updated: 9:40 p.m. ET Jan. 11, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - A disgraced stem cell researcher apologized Thursday at his first public appearance in almost three weeks, saying he takes full responsibility for fraudulent claims.
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Some of my students were speculating that he would continue to profess his innocence, blame underlings, etc. But it looks like he's finally figured out the game's over. |
My wife said he apologised for using fraudulent data, but denies knowing it was so. He puts the blame on the director of Mezmedi hospital, which he accuses of switching the cells without his knowledge. |
This is the interpretation I have drawn from my reading of it, as well.
I think the concept of apology has a slightly different meaning over here. I will bow to those who claim and can demonstrate superior understanding of Korean and/or Asian ways of thinking regarding these kinds of ethical breaches.
When you are the leader of a group, large or small, you are responsible for the ethics employed by all under you - if you directed what happened, you were wrong, and if you knew but did nothing, you are aalso wrong - but rather amazingly to those of us from the West, if you did not direct it and know about it, you are STILL wrong ... because you SHOULD have known, because a leader needs to know what is going on in all aspects of his organization, and failing that, you are culpable just as if you had performed the wrong yourself.
(Actually, it's not that far removed from Harry S Truman's legendary sign on his desk that said "The buck stops here.)
In the West, when a leader of a group apologizes, in our individual-centric view of things, at least these days, it means "I'm sorry I did this," but (my thinking) when the same apology occurs here it means "The fact that this occurred is my fault, and whether I did the wrong myself is irrelevant."
As evidence, I'll point to this similar apology, offered by a man who name is not Hwang, which said,
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| "For embarrassing the country, as the president of this university, I am deeply to sorry to everyone," Chung said in a statement in Korean. |
Does anyone here or elsewhere wish to claim this man is guilty of fraud?
I'm witholding judgment on Hwang's actual guilt according to our own Western ideas of it. I don't think that this "apology" constitutes an admission of criminal wrongdoing, just the admission that wrong was done and he was on watch at the time. His resignation, according to this interpretation, is an act designed to shield the larger body of Korean sdociety, and as well, the goals of the research team he tried to build but which is now in disarray.
Again, if others who claim superior knowledge of the belief systems that underly conception of ethics in this part of the world wish to dispute this, I will listen and perhaps be educated if the explanation is made clear to me.
And I want to be clear that I am in no way defending this man. But I am reserving judgment. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Some of my students were speculating that he would continue to profess his innocence, blame underlings, etc. But it looks like he's finally figured out the game's over. |
The article I saw indicates that while he accepts responsibility as project head he continues to blame underlings.
| Chicago Tribune wrote: |
| Disgraced scientist Hwang Woo Suk claimed Thursday that he does indeed possess the technology to create human embryonic clones and hinted broadly that junior researchers and jealous colleagues were responsible for his downfall. |
| India Times wrote: |
| A disgraced South Korean researcher asked his nation's pardon Thursday for fraudulent claims of stem cell breakthroughs, but said junior scientists deceived him and should share blame for the scandal. |
| San Diego Union-Tribune wrote: |
| Disgraced researcher Hwang Woo-suk asked forgiveness Thursday from fellow South Koreans for his fraudulent claims of human stem cell breakthroughs, but blamed the scandal on junior researchers who he said deceived him. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| When will the cracker do the honorable thing and toss himself off a bridge over the Han? Geez. Conspiracy. Yeah yeah. You never took a day off. You were first one in the lab in the morning. It would have taken the efforts of every scientist in the lab to fool you. And you never noticed, huh? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Some of my students were speculating that he would continue to profess his innocence, blame underlings, etc. But it looks like he's finally figured out the game's over.
The article I saw indicates that while he accepts responsibility as project head he continues to blame underlings. |
Yeah, my original comment was based on what was being reported on MSNBC at the time. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
Does anyone here or elsewhere wish to claim this man is guilty of fraud?
I'm witholding judgment on Hwang's actual guilt according to our own Western ideas of it. I don't think that this "apology" constitutes an admission of criminal wrongdoing, just the admission that wrong was done and he was on watch at the time. His resignation, according to this interpretation, is an act designed to shield the larger body of Korean sdociety, and as well, the goals of the research team he tried to build but which is now in disarray.
Again, if others who claim superior knowledge of the belief systems that underly conception of ethics in this part of the world wish to dispute this, I will listen and perhaps be educated if the explanation is made clear to me.
And I want to be clear that I am in no way defending this man. But I am reserving judgment. |
I don't really believe there are radically different Western and Eastern ideas of guilt, but I do believe The Bobster has a point. There are many people involved in this scandal, and it was actually not Dr. Hwang who took the fake photos, but a Mr. Noh who works with the second part of the process. I'm pretty certain Dr. Hwang has done some fishy things, but I am not certain that he is guilty of masterminding a great fraud all by himself, not least because as everyone asks, 'How long did this guy think he could get away with this?'
The research is definitely suspect and Dr. Hwang's professional reputation is ruined. But there are indications (I don't fully understand the whole issue) that Dr. Hwang might not be simply the big compulsive liar some people are painting him to be. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Every step of the way he first says claims are a lie. Then he says it was an honest mistake. Then he says he wasn't aware of the deception but he should have known and, bravely, takes all the responsibility as the head scientist. But he keeps trying to paint it like his hands are clean. He's just TRUSTED TOO MUCH. Boo hoo. Sure doesn't jibe with the image he paint as a man totally in control of every single step... |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
It's already made it to MSNBC...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10811959/
| Quote: |
Updated: 9:40 p.m. ET Jan. 11, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - A disgraced stem cell researcher apologized Thursday at his first public appearance in almost three weeks, saying he takes full responsibility for fraudulent claims. |
Some of my students were speculating that he would continue to profess his innocence, blame underlings, etc. But it looks like he's finally figured out the game's over. |
My wife said he apologised for using fraudulent data, but denies knowing it was so. He puts the blame on the director of Mezmedi hospital, which he accuses of switching the cells without his knowledge. |
This is the interpretation I have drawn from my reading of it, as well.
I think the concept of apology has a slightly different meaning over here. I will bow to those who claim and can demonstrate superior understanding of Korean and/or Asian ways of thinking regarding these kinds of ethical breaches. |
He's blaming his juniors. Sounds mostly like a megalomaniac's typical cop-out 
Hwang Blames Fraud on Junior Researchers
By BO-MI LIM, Associated Press Writer
Fri Jan 13, 1:07 AM ET
SEOUL, South Korea - Disgraced researcher Hwang Woo-suk asked forgiveness Thursday from fellow South Koreans for his fraudulent claims of human stem cell breakthroughs, but blamed the scandal on junior researchers who he said deceived him.
Hwang, in his first public appearance in nearly three weeks, continued to insist he has the technology to use cloning to create human embryonic stem cells genetically matched to patients — saying he could do so in six months if he had access to enough human eggs.
Seoul National University, where Hwang is a professor, issued investigation results Tuesday saying he fabricated landmark claims in 2004 to have created the world's first stem cells from a cloned human embryo. The university previously ruled that another Hwang article last year on patient-specific stem cells also was fake.
"The use of fake data ... is what I have to take full responsibility for as first author," Hwang told a nationally televised news conference. "I acknowledge all of that and apologize once again."
"I ask for your forgiveness," Hwang said. "I feel so miserable that it's difficult even to say sorry."
Hwang, at one point on the verge of tears, also blamed himself for being too caught up in his research to not see the problems around him.
"We were crazy, crazy about work," he said. "I was blinded. All I could see was whether I could make Korea stand in the center of the world through this research."
Hwang repeated his earlier claims that he was deceived about the data by two junior scientists at a partner research hospital, and said he believed that his papers were legitimate when they were published.
He said the junior researchers at Seoul-based Mizmedi Hospital lied to him when they said they successfully culled and grew stem cells from human embryos cloned by Hwang's team.
"We believe they completely deceived (us) with their research results," Hwang said. "Relying on the role and responsibility of Mizmedi Hospital, we trusted their reports 100 percent."
South Korean prosecutors barred more of Hwang's collaborators from leaving the country on Friday, local media reported.
Twenty-eight people have been ordered not to leave the country, including Hwang, Yonhap news agency and other media reported, citing unidentified prosecution officials. Prosecutors were not immediately reachable for confirmation.
Hwang previously called on prosecutors to investigate his claims that some of the cloned embryonic stem cells at his lab had been maliciously switched with those created at Mizmedi using embryos that had not been cloned.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/skorea_stem_cell;_ylt=AobrXT96iyV4FZnF3QZtWJ8FO7gF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3JlbA-- |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Anyone catch this on BBC?
When a news outlet that's unwilling to run phrases like "quasi-fascist" to describe the Iranian regime runs such a phrase to describe the Hwang Woo Suk scandal, that's saying something.
Ouch! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: |
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How could he have not known? Two cell lines are real and the other 9 are fakes. I repeat: Unless he was on a year and a half coffee break, how could he have not known?
What junior in this society would have the nerve to fake this stuff without the boss's direction?
Poppycock and balderdash! |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Was there any apology to his female assistants for pressuring them to donate their own eggs?
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
Anyone catch this on BBC?
When a news outlet that's unwilling to run phrases like "quasi-fascist" to describe the Iranian regime runs such a phrase to describe the Hwang Woo Suk scandal, that's saying something.
Ouch! |
Nevertheless, Choi Jang-jip hit the nail right on the head with that statement. |
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