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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I would rather teach even one child than waste the time of the lot of them. Yeah, it sounds corny, but it's true. Reaching even just one child in a class of 20 can make it all worthwhile. How can anyone criticize tomato anyways? He seems to be a teacher at heart, not just here for reasons that make the job almost incidental. Thoughtful, hardworking and creative...all characteristics of a good teacher.
Why waste 90% of the effort on 10% of the kids? Because 10% are worth that much of my effort. Reform them? Is that our job? I didn't know...I thought we were English teachers. Perhaps if your classes were as stimulating as tomato's seem, the kids would be there 4 months later.
Not trying to start a fight here Yu Bum...I just can't see past the resigned bitterness of your post...especially directed towards someone like tomato. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
Not trying to start a fight here Yu Bum...I just can't see past the resigned bitterness of your post...especially directed towards someone like tomato. |
I'm not bitter towards him at all, and good on him if he can deal with classes like that. I just couldn't see wasting all that time on such a routine like that. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
I'm not bitter towards him at all, and good on him if he can deal with classes like that. I just couldn't see wasting all that time on such a routine like that. |
Why do you say "wasting"? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
I'm not bitter towards him at all, and good on him if he can deal with classes like that. I just couldn't see wasting all that time on such a routine like that. |
Why do you say "wasting"? |
If the school / academy is serious about learning then the kids know they're supposed to sit down, stay in their seats, and not yak away in Korean at full volume. If they do, you put an immediate end to it, and then you move on with teaching. Of course it helps to have good materials that are at their level and keep them moving along. But things like glaring and growling like a bear, sticker-points systems, time outs, everyone stand up, three strikes and all that I just can't be arsed with.
But then that's easy for me to say becaues I work at a good school and have good students. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
If the school / academy is serious about learning then the kids know they're supposed to sit down, stay in their seats, and not yak away in Korean at full volume. If they do, you put an immediate end to it, and then you move on with teaching. Of course it helps to have good materials that are at their level and keep them moving along. But things like glaring and growling like a bear, sticker-points systems, time outs, everyone stand up, three strikes and all that I just can't be arsed with.
But then that's easy for me to say becaues I work at a good school and have good students. |
Well, this seems a typical ESL-teacher-in-Korea attitude. You can feel safe in numbers...I mean hey, you can't all be wrong, right?
It does seem that you think of the kids as a barrier to getting what you want to do done. Except in your school, of course. |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| My Korean's terrible but knowing 'Jo-yang haseyo!' (be quiet), 'An-jusayo!' (sit down), 'Da-ra haseyo' (repeat), and 'Hajima!' (stop it) really helps.. |
Yes, definitely use all those phrases in class so all the students can be shocked that a white person actually knows a few utterences of thier Han Master Race language and then proceed to laugh at you after realizing that you are using the polite form with them. |
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TJ
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: helpful korean phrase |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| My Korean's terrible but knowing 'Jo-yang haseyo!' (be quiet), 'An-jusayo!' (sit down), 'Da-ra haseyo' (repeat), and 'Hajima!' (stop it) really helps. . |
I know some people are going to criticise me for suggesting this BUT ........ when all else fails and your students ignore your attempts at Korean language as above (and you are desperate) ....... call out loudly "Ip da mullo" It's means "Shut up" and it's not polite !!!! However, it really does work.
You can be certain that they will all sit up and pay attention when you use that phrase. |
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Pak Yu Man
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: The Ida galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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You have to be a hard ass the first few weeks. Once they now you are the boss and you'll do sometiing if they're jumping on the tables or what not...they'll settle down.
First time a kid does something that deserves punishment. Make them stand in the corner with their arms out a 90 degrees.
If you want to be a real *beep* (I would suggest it). Put some books on his hands. He's got to hold them.
Leave the class for a few seconds (they'll think you are getting the boss or a Korean) come back with a bunch of books.
Tell them "Next guy get's 2 books, the next 3"
Back in the hogwon days I had kids calling my bluff and most of the class holding books, chairs...whatever.
Or hit them with a stick. Your boss might not like that one 
Oh and the Korean Yu bum suk said is good. Just drop the yo.
When you are angry don't use the polite term.
Here are some others.
Look at a kid and just say eep. (means mouth, short for shut your mouth)
She Ka rapt ta. You guys are noisy. you are noisy.
Or if the kids just get out of hand just yell something random in English or
YA. Ya works well. But you have to shock them. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Went to class today and had a good day!  I was more stern than usual and only gave rewards to children who were good. Thanks for the Korean phrases guys but I'm stickin' to English and a bit of French. I'm gettin' paid to teach these here rascals English and thats what I'm a aimin' to do. No Korean will be spoken in my class. Period. Besides I always feel they're talking about me when they speak in their native tongue... Good $ wasted if I allow them to utter Korean. Total emersion.
I have a few kids that I just adore. Actually told 2 of them today that they were my favorites. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, but I look forward to seeing them and I know they're good kids.
BTW Tomatoe's one awesome teacher...I can tell by the post! Very imaginative and quite experienced, but then I think most people here on Dave's really care about teaching no matter what. Why would they be so eager to share their teaching knowledge with the rest of us if not?
Thanks for all the advice!!! |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| punishment? sending them into an unheated hallway for a minute or two (depending on the severity, maybe without a coat) is about as harsh as I get |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Reading Bosintang's and Tomatoe's posts is a lot of fun - it reminds me that there are teachers who actually have to go through such ridiculous routines, and then still get undermined or get complaints. |
I never receive any complaints and haven't in a long time. I still have to teach classes that often have boring, underdeveloped material, but the vast majority of my students are happy and learning. A positive combination.
I don't agree with all of Tomato's advice, particularly because we teach different age groups, but if it works for him, great. I'm sure he feels the same about me.
| mindmetoo wrote: |
You're not going to save them from a life of bad hagwoning and reform them. You can go through the song and dance or just simply kick them out of the classroom and make them cool their butts in the hall alone with zero stimulation for the balance of the class.
Why waste 90% of your effort on 10% of kids? |
Because it's not "wasting" your effort at all. I don't think anyone here would disagree with me here that classes filled with happy, engaged, positively active students are a hell of a lot more fun to teach than classes where you are teaching in a hostile environment. This is true no matter which country you're in or what age level you're teaching. In your worst classes, think of how much time of your class you probably "waste" by having to discipline kids.
| Yu Bum Suk wrote: |
| but then that's easy for me to say becaues I work at a good school and have good students |
By the sounds of it, it's probably easier for you to say because you're teaching an age level more suitable to what you want.
As for you corporal punishment types, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing by doing that? Does making your students hate you make them respect you? Make them learn more? What lessons do they learn by being humiliated? (and let's face it, that's what it is about, even if it's not personally gratifying.)
And even more curiously, when you were in school, did you have teachers who ever did that to you?
I was not exactly a model student, and yet, I can think of one teacher I ever had who used corporal punishment as a form of discipline. I never respected her, and if anything, she egged me on. In that same grade I had other teachers who I had lots more respect for, including my French teacher and I'd have rather drove spikes in my nails than study French, and the only significant difference I can think of was that I had a much better relationship with those teachers. They cared about me as a person, they treated me like a human being, and not an obstacle to whatever grand educational plan they have in their heads. When I screwed up -- and I often did -- they didn't have to start making me hold up chairs over my head and put my nose against the wall and all that nonsense. Simply telling me to leave the class or keeping me after class and telling me they were dissapointed in me or making me do my work I didn't do during class after class was enough to make me realise I screwed up. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Hello,  !
on constructive use of time
How am I "wasting all that time"? Aren't the students important?
My materials are reusable. After I got the conduit pipes sawed off to the right dimensions, I have used them hundreds of times. After I got the alphabet tiles finished, I have used them hundreds of times. Once I translate a Korean picture book, I reuse it for years afterward.
Furthermore, I do it partly for myself. The classroom is where I am for a large portion of my time, so I would like to make it enjoyable for myself. I can't stand the textbook for longer than fifteen or twenty minutes. As far as I can see, a teacher without a textbook is like a fish without a bicycle.
on expectations of the students
| Quote: |
| If the school/academy is serious about learning then the kids know they're supposed to sit down, stay in their seats, and not yak away in Korean at full volume. |
I agree. Furthermore, that is exactly what I expect of the students, and that is exactly what I get from the students. Are you implying that creative teaching and firm discipline are mutually exclusive? I honestly don't see that.
Rather, it is the Korean teachers who are powerless to keep the students from hangukmalling. The students see the Korean teachers hangukmalling, so they know it is all right for them to hangukmall.
I'm delighted to hear our venerable OP saying:
| Quote: |
| I'm stickin' to English and a bit of French. I'm gettin' paid to teach these here rascals English and thats what I'm a aimin' to do. No Korean will be spoken in my class. Period. |
Maybe she should be offering advice on this board rather than soliciting advice.
on loyalty
I am glad you think that you "work at a good school."
What is your standard for a good school?
I am also glad that you think that you have "good students."
But has it occurred to you that other teachers also feel that way? I wouldn't give away my four-year-old kindergarten students for all the gold in Fort Knox.
The elementary students have also been very good to me. During free time, they gather around and learn Korean sign language with me. They also gather around me and sing Korean children's songs with me. They see that I enjoy learning a second language, and hopefully that shows them that they could also enjoy learning a second language.
As for the other teachers in my school, you can say whatever you wish. The other teachers in my school can all evaporate for all I care.
Hello,  !
How am I "wasting 90% of [my] effort on 10% of the kids"?
Where are those 90% who are not profiting from my class?
Hello,  !
Thanks for the defense.
Hello, Yo!Chingo!
Enough about me. What about you?
Do you think you will fit into teaching early elementary children?
It seems to take a special type to teach each age group.
I nearly lost my last three jobs because I couldn't adjust to any other age group. I notice that you said "I've never been fired before." Be careful applying my ideas to older students, or you might lost your perfect record.
Last edited by tomato on Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: Re: helpful korean phrase |
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| TJ wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| My Korean's terrible but knowing 'Jo-yang haseyo!' (be quiet), 'An-jusayo!' (sit down), 'Da-ra haseyo' (repeat), and 'Hajima!' (stop it) really helps. . |
I know some people are going to criticise me for suggesting this BUT ........ when all else fails and your students ignore your attempts at Korean language as above (and you are desperate) ....... call out loudly "Ip da mullo" It's means "Shut up" and it's not polite !!!! However, it really does work.
You can be certain that they will all sit up and pay attention when you use that phrase. |
What ESL student in Korea doesn't understand "Quiet!"? If they don't understand this it's time to go back to square one and teach them basic classroom commands.
It's not the fact that you're speaking Korean that is getting their attention, it's the fact that you're being assertive and using a "this time I mean business" attitude that comes with it. It just happens that you've conditioned your students to believe you're really serious when you speak Korean. Think of Pavlov's dogs, when the dogs start salivating for food at the ring of a bell. The choice of a bell over any other sound was an arbitrary one. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Hello,  !
| Yu-Bum-suk wrote: |
| Reading Bosintang's and Tomatoe's posts is a lot of fun - it reminds me that there are teachers who actually have to go through such ridiculous routines, and then still get undermined or get complaints. |
You responded, "I never receive any complaints and haven't in a long time."
Yum-Bum-suk was probably talking about me. I once had a director who told me to teach straight out of the book, just like she did. I told her to @@@@@ her ##### into the %%%%%. Then I went on this board and bragged about it. Yu-Bum-suk probably saw that thread. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Hello, !
on constructive use of time
How am I "wasting all that time"? Aren't the students important?
My materials are reusable. After I got the conduit pipes sawed off to the right dimensions, I have used them hundreds of times. After I got the alphabet tiles finished, I have used them hundreds of times. Once I translate a Korean picture book, I reuse it for years afterward.
Furthermore, I do it partly for myself. The classroom is where I am for a large portion of my time, so I would like to make it enjoyable for myself. I can't stand the textbook for longer than fifteen or twenty minutes. As far as I can see, a teacher without a textbook is like a fish without a bicycle.
on expectations of the students
| Quote: |
| If the school/academy is serious about learning then the kids know they're supposed to sit down, stay in their seats, and not yak away in Korean at full volume. |
I agree. Furthermore, that is exactly what I expect of the students, and that is exactly what I get from the students. Are you implying that creative teaching and firm discipline are mutually exclusive? I honestly don't see that.
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I agree as well. What I'm talking about is wasting time that you could spend teaching going through silly disciplinary routines for problems that could be solved instantly by a quick trip to the hall or a threat to go see dam-eam sungsangnim or just confiscating something. Of course, we're probably talking very different ages of students, and I suspect that you have more experience with students closer to those of the OP's than I do. |
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