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Romulus
Joined: 07 May 2003 Location: Ilbon/Japan
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 10:14 pm Post subject: Where did you get your information? |
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Gord,
Its not in the newspaper article.He went on a bender where did you get that ? Second his organs should be returned with his body to the family so an autopsy can be performed by his family if they so wish.Third the tapes of the phone conversation with the consulate should also be made available to his family.Four,knowing that Matt had been assaulted five days previously the consular should have gone to the police station immediately no ifs and buts about it.The Int.Herald reported that they didnt think he was American when contacted by the police.Someone dropped the ball and now hes dead.If it was your brother I bet you would like it to be known exactly how he died.I would. Ive dealt with consulates before and I say they should have gone down there Saturday or not. |
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Ajarn Miguk

Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: TDY As Assigned
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 11:00 pm Post subject: Actually |
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Actually, Mr. Bendsen is quoted in the article, "In retrospect, it would have been better if we had seen him at the police station."
Does "uncommunicative" equate to "refused?" Some people are uncommunicative when they are in most need of assistance, or incapable of communicating.
Why is it some people value protecting Koreans, Americans, police, hospitals and doctors more than they do the truth?
Why do these people find the truth so frightening? My guess is because it is out of their control.
Just a guess. |
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Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Where did you get your information? |
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Romulus wrote: |
Someone dropped the ball and now hes dead. |
So who dropped the ball? You're suggesting the embassy staff did despite them doing exactly what they were suppose to do.
The police did what they should have.
The medical staff did what they should have.
Exactly where "was the ball dropped", and what should have been done differently to prevent Matthew's heart failure?
You are not a doctor. You also don't have first hand information. You are taking bits and pieces you want to hear, disregarding the rest that contradicts your theory or paints Matthew in any sort of a negative light, then masking behind "won't someone think of the family?" so that if anyone tries to challenge you it looks like it's an attack on the family. |
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William Beckerson Guest
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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What's sad is how most of us think that any of use are worth the time to be spit upon by the average Korean.
Newsflash: They dont care about you. You're the hired help, barely above the Bangledeshis they hire to do the factory work here. That the guy's death was met with a collective "So what?" by Koreans is not surprising to me at all. |
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Romulus
Joined: 07 May 2003 Location: Ilbon/Japan
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 2:16 am Post subject: Yes I am suggesting |
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Because thats what I choose to beleive from what Ive seen about this case and I think Im not alone in that belief.Anyway, they can clear this whole matter up.What do you think someone might not be lying or spinning the so called facts to Cover their A**ses.If you think that is not possible think again.Its very strange and anything so unclear should have more light shed on it.I worked for the government before and know how they operate and also know about how the police operate in Korea too.Hospitals and doctors also are not above lying to cover their butts either when it suits them.If the family so wishes which I READ, another autopsy will perhaps shed more light on the matter. |
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Raymo2
Joined: 27 May 2003
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 12:49 am Post subject: The Suspicious Death of Matthew Sellers |
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The Joongang Ilbo article on Matthew Seller's Death is a poor example of investigative journalism because she didn't ask key people hard questions. For example, what about the police and the hospital workers? What kind of drug was Matthew given and how much? How is it that the autopsy report is inconclusive, that they still can't state what the cause of death was. It seems like a cover up to me - very fishy indeed. The reporter couldn't do any better than that? Besides that, the interviews of Matthew's friends are sketchy. It seems like they interviewed people who didn't seem to know anything relevant to the suspicious circumstances leading to his death.
Now, it may not have been her fault. She appears to be an amateur reporter. However, it is not inconceivable that the newspaper would purposely put an amateur on this assignment so that the hard questions aren't asked to key people. Only a seasoned investigative journalist knows how to dig for the truth. But obviously, the newspaper didn't want that. Instead, they want to whitewash this. I think they're just trying to plug holes to pacify the foreigner community - to keep them silent.
It seems to me that some of this story has been concocted. What the Korean media fears most about all this is that foreigners will try to use it the same way that Koreans used the accidental death of the school girls. In other words, they are trying to pacify us with this cock-and-bull story so that we don't press the issue and go public with it. I mean candlelight vigils and all that. Just imagine what would happen then. If the American media got wind of it, they might pick it up and it would be more negative news about Korea in the media. Then, America might seriously start considering moving the troops out. That's what they fear. They don't want to lose their tripwire, "so let's put a lid on this story."
That's why I suggest that we don't let this die. That we do the candle light vigils by the hospitals or the police station where Matthew was held, or even the American embassy. Give them a taste of their own medicine. Let's get radical and start a big media event!
Now, here's my take on it, for what it's worth:
From the comments of Matthew's friends, it does appear that he was acting very strange on that day. I do believe that he went out of his head.
However, the question is why? Did he have a history of mental illness? The Thai episode is mentioned but without any substantiation. One has to wonder if it's even true.
Regardless, I believe that I can surmise what happened.
From the descriptions given about Matthew, he was a very friendly and positive guy. He loved children so much he quit his job at a university to teach children at a hogwan, and he also seemed to love Korea. He never had anything negative to say about Korea, and he had been in Korea for a considerable amount of time.
All that started to change when the anti-Americanism started to hit the fan last year. So, Matthew, usually a very positive guy, very positive about Korea, started to become disillusioned about Korea.
Then there was the subway incident a few days before he died. Matthew was fluent in Korean. He got into an argument with some anti-American radicals on the subway. They became violent and beat him. We don't know exactly what the extent of Mattew's injuries were as a result of that beating. He may have been kicked in the head. Did he seek treatment after that? He may have had a head injury and didn't even know it.
Then there was the trauma. I believe that Matthew was severely traumatized by that event, especially given the years that he had been so positive about Korea, not to mention the possible injuries to the head. Injuries to the head should not be underestimated, especially as a result of trauma. The trauma can last for weeks. Sometimes there's permanent trauma for life.
So, on that day, Matthew flipped out. It's understandable. Under those circumstances, it could have happened to anyone.
So, why was the American embassy so unresponsive and distant? And what was the drug that was given to Matthew and how much? Can that be verified? Did they check his medical records before injecting him? And what about that police officer who went "on vacation" immediately afterwards? Why wasn't he questioned by the Joongang Ilbo?
It seems to me that he had a reaction to the drug. In that case, it's a clear case of homicidal negligence by those who held him down to inject him with something that they had no idea how he might react and which would, eventually, contribute to this death. In my opinion, there's much stronger grounds for the charge of homicidal negligence in this case than in the accidental death of the two school girls last summer.
Do you believe that the Korean autopsy report will not be a cover up as well? In fact, I would bet that they did everything they could to make sure that the American autopsy doesn't find out anything. From what I've read, as of yet, they haven't returned his vital organs. Why not?
How can we who live in Korea witness this tragedy and gross injustice and hardly let out a whimper, especially those who are teaching English here?
There should be an outcry. That's why I say that we should hold candlelight vigils in front of the police station or hospital where he was held or maybe even the American embassy. If the Korean media doesn't want to handle this story properly, then we need to get the attention of the American media.
This was an American who truly loved Korea and because of that what happened to him? He was beaten into disillusionment. As a result, he flipped out. Then, he was injected with God-knows-what-and-how-much drugs. Finally, he had a reaction to the dose, or overdose, and died.
There must be justice for those who committed those crimes: for those ba*tards who beat him and for those idiots who were negligent while he was in their care.
We shouldn't let this be swept under the carpet to die out. Matthew was too good a person for that. His only crime was that he loved Korea - and for that, he was murdered. Any way you look at it, if his death was related to the beating that he took a few days before, it's murder. And if it's related to a reaction to the drugs he was given, it's criminal negligence.
Someone is responsible. Remember what Koreans said about the accidental death of the two school girls? They couldn't accept that it was an accident. Someone has to take responsibility and someone has to pay. In that case, the U.S. military did take responsibility immediately afterwards. The General apologized to the family twice and the largest amout ever was paid as compensation to the families of those two girls. Once the families accepted that compensation, according to Korean culture, the case is closed.
Contrast that with the case of Matthew Sellers. Has anyone stepped up to claim responsibility? Has anyone offered compensation to the family?
Those are the kinds of hard questions and issues surrounding his suspicious death that should be put forth in the Korean media.
Yet, instead, they are trying to sweep the whole issue under the carpet, hoping that, in time, the foreign community will forget about it and the issue will just fade away.
Raymo |
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jack_daniels
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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Peter
Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 6:00 pm Post subject: US Embassy |
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In the Birmingham News article:
Chris Bendsen at American Citizen Services does say "In retrospect, it would have been better to see him at the police station."
That is encouraging. So my question is : What steps will be made so that this kind of thing won't happen again. |
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Dr. Buck

Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: Land of the Morning Clam
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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So what is the conclusion of this story? We last left off with many loose ends . . . |
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itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Buck wrote: |
So what is the conclusion of this story? We last left off with many loose ends . . . |
I dont mean any offence by this! but
what this means is.. if you're a foreigner who has died by the hands of a korean IT gets swept under the rug quickly as possible!!
BUT
If a korean dies by the hand of a foreigner it becames an INTERNATIONAL incedent..
I too would like to know how the investigation is going! have they found the cause of death yet? |
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Peter
Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:48 pm Post subject: test |
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give me a break if this goes through. My last post s come back "log in" |
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Seoultrader

Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Location: Ali's Insurgent Inn, Fallujah
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:57 am Post subject: |
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First time I read about this earth-shattering international incident.
So a semi-car-jacking, pot-smoking American with obvious mental issues expired in police custody. The fact that he was at one time an intelligent and productive member of society is, although tragic, really moot.
So cry me a freakin' river.
Where's the news value? It's just as silly as the (admittingly, even more annoying) over-coverage of 2 teens that get pancaked by a USFK vehicle. |
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Pyongshin Sangja

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: I love baby!
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Trader, that is a terrible thing to say. As is bragging about hiring hookers. Delete that damn post.
~flame deleted 8:37pm by waterbaby~ |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I feel compelled to make a comment about the U.S. Embassy in general. They are extremely overworked and extremely overextended.
I was very violently robbed and beaten in Venezeula several years ago. I had a very bloody eye, a huge black and blue ring around that very bloody eye, and huge welts of black and blue all over my face in the other spots that I was hit. I looked a bit like Homer Simpson did in one of those episodes where his eyeball was practically hanging out of the socket - not that bad - but something like that.. my face was however totally black and blue.. around my forehead and most of the one side of my face.. and some bloody lips.. and a very bloody looking eye.. that was swelled up to unbelievable proportions - (just short of an eyeball hanging out of its socket - my eye was too swelled for that to happen)..
Anyhow, that happened on a Friday. I didn't even try to contact the Embassy as I was about 200 miles away from Caracas, the only Embassy I think could have helped me), but by Monday I was able to get back to Caracas and get to the Embassy.. I arrived about 2 minutes before closing, completely a mess, and when I arrived they said they couldn't help me, come back again as the Embassy was closing. I went back the next day and I believe it was a public holiday or something.. so I once again couldn't get in.. (I don't remember which order this happened - either Monday was a public holiday or vice-versa, but both did happen).
The following day, my third day back to the Embassy, I was able to get in and get in line and all of that. But I didn't have any photos for my application, so I had to go get those first. Oh sorry, I should explain, I didn't have any intention of reporting the incident, my main intention being to get a new passport so I could get out of the country. Anyhow, as I'm applying, of course my face is a bloody mess, and I recall joking around with the staff member how they beat me and what a mess it was.. and of course I had to write the reason for applying for a new passport, so I described it briefly on the lines - beaten and robbed with passport stolen in the process.
Anyhow, after all this time.. they needed to verify I even was an American, it took about another week or 10 days or so.. this after taking 3 consecutive days of taking taxis to get to the Embassy to even apply for a passport.
Anyhow, in short, being beaten and robbed and looking like a bloody mess even at the U.S. Embassy doors does very little. So unforunately, even in Matthew Sellers case, a call from someone saying there is an American in the hospital probably wouldn't do much more either, unfortunately. I'm not saying the U.S. Embassy may or may not be at fault. But knowing that I made numerous visits to the Embassy on a routine basis, oh, one other mention, they also said the new passport would be ready in 3-5 days or whatever, so while it took about 7-10 days total, this meant I was visiting alot of those days thinking it would be ready on that day. When I called beforehand, it wasn't of much help, I remember giving the impression that no one seemed to really know what the status was, so it would be better to just come in once again. So, I was probably in that Embassy at least a half dozen times trying to get a passport with a mangled face, so if anyone knew any proper procedures to help me out (probably would have basically been filing paperwork - rather than finding out who and why people are beating and robbing americans anyhow), so in short.. It doesn't surprise me that no one from the Embassy would follow up on a phone call that some American was in a hospital for unknown reasons. Again, unfortunately.
This is a very interesting case and situation though. I have just read just about every kind of link I could find on this website about it, and hope to read more about it as well. This is an interesting case, and I think many of us Americans can very well relate to Matthew Sellers.. I know I can.. particularly the exhaustion at times of anti-american comments. For the most part, it really isn't a problem at all. Most Koreans do like Americans, and generally my experiences are very positive.
But, certain cases like the two girls who were killed by U.S. military personnel never seem to die, and even the most open-minded Koreans I know seem to be extremely anti-American and want to spit at any American just because of this case.
Also, there was a brief comment on here about Michael Sellers saying that he made the reference "I hate Bush" at the police station. This could be the result of many things. People forget that Americans are just about half Democrats and half Republicans. I, myself am Democrat, but I always support and love my country and everything it stands for. I am also quite concerned with the direction our country is headed, and the very slanted view and perception of how people are viewing it because of our current leader whose opinions and thoughts on the world at large are quite different than my own. Its an exhausting effort to ward off the many non-Americans comments, stereotypes and so on pop out of people's mouths who should otherwise be open-minded and aware of things.. particularly when they tend to target you out specifically..
Actually, to this matter, I had this this last weekend with a French guy. He found I was an American and immediately wanted to talk politics. He told me the world hates me and my country. I said that I don't want to talk politics. He persisted. I told him I disagreed with Bush. He said that I disagreed only because I was abroad and I knew it was better to disagree. I told him that I'm not a Bush supporter, I am an American however. In short, his attacks were relentless, and ultimately this kind of thing coming up over and over and over tends to wear a person down after awhile. If I meet a French guy, I'd rather talk about just about anything else. But more often then not, the person wants me to talk about American politics and wants to express how evil and bad I am for being born in American and being from a country who has a President who is so controversial and so 'hated' in the world. Anyhow, I'm making these comments not because I myself am anti-American, because I definetely am not. I am, however, quite exausted at alot of other people's assumptions and accusations and stereotypes on me because of the fact that I'm American, without knowing anything about me. Its possible Matthew Sellers had very similar feelings and thoughts from time to time, and particularly moreso recently, particularly if he's been quite positive about Korea and investing so much time and effort in this place, and so much of his life, only to be hated later moreso because of his nationality, and totally unrecognized at the time regarding the effort he put into the Korean language, his friends, his life here, his postings to help the Seoul subway, etc. Its difficult to be so involved in a society and community, only to have some guys on the subway approach you and hate you solely based on your nationality without knowing anything whatsoever about who you really are inside.
Another thing that bothers me about this case is one of the articles implyed that Matthew Sellers was trying to get into a car.. (kind of implyed 'breaking into' a car).. but why would the guy who owns the car upon having someone break into his car, bring him to the police station and drop him off? If so, if he was 'breaking in' wouldn't this be tried differently then having the officer driving him around trying to find someone to help him out. The other thing is later another news source, the Stars and Stripes, mentions that he was climbing into a taxi? So, I'm a bit confused about this.
Also, the marijuana reference.. marijuana takes 30-60 days to leave your bloodstream.. so if he did smoke something, it doesn't mean he was under the influence.. and I think it has little relevance on the last few days.. particularly since I've seldom if ever heard of anyone having the experiences from marijuana during the entire ideal that was happening to him before he died.. also, the effects of smoking marijuana only last several hours.. so I'd imagine with everything else going on.. it wouldn't have been anytime during all of the events that occurred.. it does however stay in your bloodstream for 1-2 months after even a single puff.. so this particular aspect seems irrelevant to the last few days.. it only means what it means.. in that he smoked some reefer sometime with the last 1-2 months of his life.. and nothing more..
One other thing to mention.. when someone is attacked.. not because of something they did or said.. but based on their nationality, or gender or skin color or whatever.. whatever it is.. it does have an effect on you.. I know it did with me in Venezuela.. and you aren't quite of the 'right' mind for immediately afterwards.. not necessarily that you are crazy or anything.. it just makes you think about alot of things.. particularly your life .. and well.. it makes you re-examine absolutely everything.. I know I loved South America.. but after that incident.. I felt alot differently about the place and the continent for quite awhile afterwards.. eventually you do forget about it.. but immediately after it happens.. it will be on your mind the majority of the time.
Anyhow, just some thoughts.. and this is a very interesting thread as well.. |
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dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Great post, Tiger. Right on the money. |
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