| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: Climate Change:'We are past the point of no return' |
 |
|
New report out today from top scientist:- excellent reads, all the following articles..
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article338878.ece
" Before this century is over, billions of us will die, and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic where the climate remains tolerable."
The scientist's vision of what human society may ultimately be reduced to through climate change is " a broken rabble led by brutal warlords."
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article338830.ece
"Each nation must find the best use of its resources to sustain civilisation for as long as they can".
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article338879.ece
"as you approach one of the tipping points, the thresholds, the extent of amplification rapidly increases and tends towards infinity."
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article338689.ece
Global warming to speed up as carbon levels show sharp rise:unpublished figures for the first 10 months of this year show a rise of 2.2ppm.
Polar Bears soon to be extinct
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article338935.ece
Off the north coast of Alaska the average summer temperature has increased by 2 to 3C since the 1950s. Last September the ice had retreated a record 160 miles from the Alaskan coast, and scientists from the US Geological Survey found 10 polar bears swimming offshore with another 40 stranded on land. A few days later, after a storm and fierce seas, they found four drowned bears in the water, a fate that had probably befallen many more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The scientist's vision of what human society may ultimately be reduced to through climate change is " a broken rabble led by brutal warlords." |
I think that sentence contradicts itself.
Nevertheless, looks like an opportunity, for anybody who's ever wanted to become a brutal warlord with a broken rabble to fight over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
There was far more natural forest cover on the earth before widescale human settlement skyrocketted over the past 200 years. Yet only now, with the onset of massive forest clearance and human settlement in the past 200 years, are we seeing the spectre of global warming.
So what is your proposal to stem global warming? Clear the last remnants of natural forest cover? (Thus releasing all the stored carbon into the atmosphere).
i don't think you can doubt that the off-the scale mushrooming of human population has had a devastating effect on the natural environment and natural processes. Searching for tenuous, pie in the sky, theories to absolve ourselves of blame at this stage is certainly the last thing that is needed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
| i don't think you can doubt that the off-the scale mushrooming of human population has had a devastating effect on the natural environment and natural processes. |
i think you can doubt it. we humans are not so significant as we think. the earth can survive anything we can throw at it, and will. human actions are just a drop in the bucket geologically speaking. even if we cut down every forest on earth we can't keep them down forever. i betcha if we unleashed the worst disaster imaginable upon ourselves and nature, the forests would grow back stronger than they are today, in less than a hundred years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
the one thing that is a very curious thing to consider (when put into context):
Atmospheric methane has tripled over the last 150yrs yet forest cover has decreased by somewhere around half (some estimates say in the last 50yrs).
| Quote: |
| the earth can survive anything we can throw at it |
| Quote: |
| i betcha if we unleashed the worst disaster imaginable upon ourselves and nature, the forests would grow back stronger than they are today, in less than a hundred years. |
That is completely 100% true.
However, if humans wanted to LIVE on earth, then perhaps a little stewardship is necessary. I don't think that environmentalists (in a broad sense) are worried solely about nature, but about how many is able to survive on this planet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| joe_doufu wrote: |
| i betcha if we unleashed the worst disaster imaginable upon ourselves and nature, the forests would grow back stronger than they are today, in less than a hundred years. |
M.A.D.? Mutually assured destruction? ie..the detonation of some or most of the worlds 30.000 nuclear warheads?
Hmm..lets see now.. 70% of the ozone layer destroyed, much of the earths plant life severely damaged by nuclear winter..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter
What a thought... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joe, as usual you show either sophomoric or intentionally sarcastic thinking.
Let me toot my own horn for saying for years what was said in the sources cited above. Go ahead, check the archives to see what I've said over the months since I joined up on Dave's again. My point: It's all so obvious. Folks, I am not a genius. You don't need to be.
We are in serious crap. Add in the political "Global Warming" with the natural??
I'll repeat: as lonely as it gets, thank God I don't have kids. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
Yet only now, with the onset of massive forest clearance and human settlement in the past 200 years, are we seeing the spectre of global warming.
|
Total garbage......
There are several instances in the past that showed both drastic periods of warming and cooling, some with much faster rates than those seen today. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Climate Change:'We are past the point of no return' |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
The scientist's vision of what human society may ultimately be reduced to through climate change is " a broken rabble led by brutal warlords."
[. |
ASA! I plan to be one of the "warlords". Sounds like fun. Who wants to be part of my "broken rabble"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Let me toot my own horn |
As if I could stop you?
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Go ahead, check the archives to see what I've said over the months since I joined up on Dave's again. My point: It's all so obvious. |
So... because you've written it, it's obvious? That's a brilliant piece of science there. As for myself, I've seen little evidence to suggest that global warming is happening, and no evidence that it is caused by humans, and no evidence that it's harmful. You are operating in a realm of pop speculation.
That's about as close to science as the rumors that Tom Cruise is gay.
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Folks, I am not a genius. You don't need to be. |
Some of us will probably continue to believe that intelligence is something to be valued.
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| thank God I don't have kids. |
You're making this too easy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joe_doufu wrote: |
| As for myself, I've seen little evidence to suggest that global warming is happening, |
I don't have time right now to dig up the mountain of scientific evidence that it is, but let me quickly refer you to a sentence from an earlier post..
"the average summer temperature has increased by 2 to 3C since the 1950s. Last September the ice had retreated a record 160 miles from the Alaskan coast"
| Quote: |
| and no evidence that it is caused by humans, |
No time once again..but perhaps you should study the awful symmettry of graphs charting 1) Human population growth 11) Industrial pollution and greenhouse emmisions ii)destruction/alteration of natural ecosystems iv)polar ice retereat v) global temperatures vii) species extinctions...over the past 150/200 years.
Go on, superimpose them over eachother.Tell you something?
| Quote: |
| and no evidence that it's harmful |
Increasing aridification of dry regions with dire consequences for residents..shrinking glaciers and lowered water supply and quality.. widescale vegetation changes.. all profoundly affecting our ability to survive.
Denying global warming is a ridiculous stance to take nowadays.
"I refuse to believe that smoking causes lung cancer- its totally unproven." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joe_doufu wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Let me toot my own horn |
As if I could stop you? |
As I said, sophomoric. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bignate wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
Yet only now, with the onset of massive forest clearance and human settlement in the past 200 years, are we seeing the spectre of global warming.
|
Total garbage......
There are several instances in the past that showed both drastic periods of warming and cooling, some with much faster rates than those seen today. |
I don't think most people would argue that the Earth cycles. In fact, that's exactly what Gaia theory would say, no? It's not a static balance, it's an overall balance that allows life to continue.
The issues are whether or not human activity is increasing the amplitude of the oscillations and whether humans and/or our societies will survive greater amplitudes than nature alone would create. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Greater global HEMP production ( all based of course on "FREE" market demand ) would drastically help neutralize if not reverse the so-called greenhouse effect.
Oh, but wait a minute. There's a wide spread prohibition on the cultivation of this NATURAL GOD-GIVEN MIRACLE PLANT, premised largely on an ignorant red-herring hysteria 
http://www.nothinbut.net/~rjohn/ganja0.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
