Korean Job Discussion Forums

[seoulunitarian]

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice. God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are "pleasing to the Lord".

Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. "Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-1 Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar. Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat. He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith. However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.

Even more peculiar is God's obsession with first-born sons. In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said "Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me." Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an a** with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that "consecrate" means a burning sacrifice.

However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. "Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death."


Jephthah Burns His Daughter

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

God Commands Burning Humans

[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)

Josiah and Human Sacrifice

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)

He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)

Humans are Fuel for Fire

As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)

Burn Nonbelievers

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

[tweeterdj]

This one is even sadder, unitarian. Come on now, stop this nonsense and find something better to do with your time.

Abraham's test was an important lesson on obediance. I don't see anything wrong with sacrificing food to worship God.

And as far as the "example" from Exodus, once again you fail to read the bible. Or anything else apparently. You quoted Ex 13:12 as "both man and bease", but that clause does not exist!! I don't know where you got that from. Maybe it's that wretched NAB version you were using in that last thread. Anyway, it is talking about animals exclusively. It's not asking for any first born humans to be burned (as this would seriously jeopardize the Jewish population), only to be "consecrated", which probably meant circumcision at this point.

As for Leviticus, all that means is that if a person is condemned to death (ie for sleeping with a betrothed woman ), then he can't be bought out. He's dead meat.

Jephthah made an oath. If he doesn't follow through, he has to die, and goes to hell. God didn't ask him to do this, he did it on his own. Therefore, you can't fault God in this case. I don't understand his motivation here, though. He only has his wife and his daughter, what the hell else is gonna come out of his door??

In Joshua, one of the soldiers had taken something that was to be destroyed, somethng that God didn't want them to have for some reason. I couldn't find what it was, but the fact that he stole when he knew he shouldn't meant he would die, why not burn him? It might seem harsh but the Lord works in mysterious ways.

In 1 Kings, the altar was of a pagan god, and therefore they killed the people who were responsible for bringing this disgrace into their midst, namely the priests. In 2 Kings, they do the same thing. Josiah does what he has to to get rid of the poisonous pagans. Idol worship can't be allowed, so things get done.

Now, Eze 21 33:37 does not exist in my bible!! Further proof that you haven't looked this up in the bible itself. Either you misquoted your source, or your source wasn't informed either. It should be Eze 21 28:32. Once again, talking about people who go against the God of Israel. Are you not seeing a theme here? Why do you want to go against this God?

Fire is a great purifier, and that's what god wants done to the towns that are not faithful to him.



You know, unitarian, I have a sneaking suspicion that you are not a Christian. If you are, and you want to talk about your doubts, then go ahead. But this is uncalled for. It's insulting to think that people out there think we don't know what we believe. If you ask most Christians, "do you think it's right to burn people", they will obviously say that they do not. However, if you ask them if they believe in ridding the world of things that are not from God, then they should say yes. So take your insults elsewhere and don't come back.

[Demophobe]

Daniel, I hope you get modsmacked for this obvious trolling, especially at this time. fiveeagles posted real and valid questions and truly searching posts. You are just being a troll. Looking for a reaction and unlike him, you are just trying to cause trouble.

Well, here you go.

You are acting silly.

[rapier]

[chiaa]

[Nowhere Man]

No idea why this should be considered trolling.

This was a simple presentation of fact. This is all in the Bible. No interpretations were included.


From wikipedia:

[tweeterdj]

Okay, here we go again. First of all, I can't believe anybody is supporting this thread. Oh well.

Now, Galileo was not imprisoned for contradicting the "word of God" he was imprisoned for speaking against the popular belief at the time (that the earth was flat), a belief that the church supported. This support, however, was not the "word of God", as nowhere in the bible does it state what shape the earth is, or if the Earth revolves around the sun.

Also, the original Hebrew text for the word "day" is the same as the word for "period of time" or "era" or as Clarence Darrow says, "age". So it is unclear how long it took, yes, but that can't be a definitive point for evolution. And why bring that up? What does that have to do with the thread?

As far as the 800+ years, see above note on the word "day". Also, research ancient calendars, and see which one fits. Their years were different, they kept time differently. Did they even have a calendar? Take a look around the world my friend, even here in Korea, people say they are a year older than our calendar suggests.

It is ignorant to say things are wrong when you can't back it up. Your evidence is flimsy to say the least, and this is the basis of a religion that is as old as any. Do you think you are the first to make such allegations? Of course you don't, you're not dumb. Just misguided. And trolling.

Besides that, why do you bring up evolution? And why if the second sentence of your post do you say "This is all in the Bible"? Of course it is, but my post earlier made it clear that those words are in a different context if you read the whole chapter, or even a verse more than just the verse. Come on people, if you're gonna try and take apart the bible, at least have a look at it first. Seriously.

[mysteriousdeltarays]

Sometimes I'm rather strange, but then again I'm not of this Earth.

Strange Alien Music is needed for this thread.

[Gorgias]

@tweeterdj, no need to try and tell the OP s/he didn't read the Bible, that stuffs all in there. My motto is: "Kill something everyday," it's not an exact quote from the Bible, but the Bible can help us to understand and appreciate cruelty and violence. Burning people is after all a part of the human experience, heck, I might burn you if I could get away with it.

[tweeterdj]

you know gorgias, i don't know when you got here, but you can leave anytime now. From the last couple posts of yours that i've read, you need sensitivity training, or a good old fashioned ass whooping.

Now obviously you can't read. If you read the posts on this and the other unitarian one, i made it clear that if you only read the parts of the book that you want, then yes you can make some assumptions, and you would be made to look like a fool. It doesn't matter that the lines that were quoted were (for the most part) in the bible, the context of the lines are billions of times more important. And since you posted in that other thread that there are too many religious posts, perhaps you and unitarian should stop trying to attack the christians on this board by goading them into responses. It's juvenile and ridiculously uninformed. good day to you.

[seoulunitarian]

Suffice it to say, most biblical scholars know that "consecrate", when used in reference to giving to Yahweh, means sacrifice in the sense of killing something as an offering (whether it be human or animal). Please do not accuse me of not reading the Bible. I have a Bachelors and Masters in Theology, and have read the Bible from cover to cover many times. I know what consecrate means in these passages. The passages mentioned refer to a time before the reign of King Josiah, who introduced pure monotheism to the Hebrews. Before Josiah, most Hebrews worshiped a variety of gods, including those to whom human sacrifice was a normal expectation.

I'm not trolling - I'm offering biblical passages for comment.

[Rock]

Tweeterdj, you seem like a cunningly accurate person. The individual posting this information could, or could not, be into something that's evil, much like the wickens or even other cultic practices happening in Korea and elsewhere in Asia. They prey on Asians, on websites. Thing is, I can't believe this person is so unintelligently un-informative and Bible learned.

[mithridates]

Galileo was put under house arrest, not imprisoned. He didn't spend a single day of his life in a prison.

[Xian]

[chiaa]