|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
 |
|
How did it all begin? Has anyone seriously thought about this, the philosophy or methodology involved in having real native english speakers come to Korea? What's more, when did it all REALLY begin?
Moreover, what's the future prospects for this field, seeing someone, somewhere, is bound to catch on that having native speakers just doesn't cut the mustard, at least not 100%. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mills
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Incheon
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| Rock wrote: |
| what's the future prospects for this field, seeing someone, somewhere, is bound to catch on that having native speakers just doesn't cut the mustard |
Shhhhh... Don't let the cat out of the bag. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| Rock wrote: |
| Moreover, what's the future prospects for this field, seeing someone, somewhere, is bound to catch on that having native speakers just doesn't cut the mustard, at least not 100%. |
I will assume you are asking a serious question and not just trolling.
I've worked in hakwon and public schools. The hakwon kids that were exposed to numberous native speakers before me, spoke MUCH better (and coherent) English than the kids at my public school where I was the first native speaker, they'd ever had.
So it is better than nothing. And short of sending their kids overseas, which most Koreans can't afford, it is the best option. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mj roach
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| Peace Corps? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think that there's really any philosphy or methodology behind having native speakers here. People learn languages, for the most part, by speaking and hearing them - not by memorizing outdated grammar rules and getting hit with a stick if they forget them. It's just the way our brains are wired.
Some Asians must have figured this out - therefore, they were willing to pay for classes with foreigners who speak English at a normal pace. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| Rock wrote: |
How did it all begin? Has anyone seriously thought about this, the philosophy or methodology involved in having real native english speakers come to Korea? What's more, when did it all REALLY begin?
Moreover, what's the future prospects for this field, seeing someone, somewhere, is bound to catch on that having native speakers just doesn't cut the mustard, at least not 100%. |
As just one example, do you also mean the Japanese teachers teaching Japanese in Canadian universities have a limited lifespan?
Or German teachers teaching German might have to go find work in different fields?
My point here is that native language teachers will always be used be it for learning regional languages or the big global ones. And given the enormous demand to learn the global language, there is no way in hell that the west can churn out enough teachers with BA-english or MA-TESOL to properly service that demand. Hence, why we see all the TEFL and TESOL certification programs out there to help out people who came to the industry from different backgrounds.
Given the gigantic population imbalance of how many native speakers of English there are in the world and willing to live elsewhere to teach it, and the enormous amounts of population in the 2nd and 3rd world who desperately want to learn the language to help improve their lot in life, I think it's totally moot to even debate any of this.
And frankly, judging from your low viewpoint of the ESL industry as a whole, it doesn't sound that you regard yourself as being a very capable teacher. Believe it or not, but for every dud, there is usually someone that is connecting well with his students and has them on the right development path. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It might interest you to read Howatt's The History of English Language Teaching
(when I have more time I'll tell you about it - a great read - others can chime in anytime) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| mj roach wrote: |
| Peace Corps? |
Peace Corp didn't get going until the early '60s, they had English teachers (and US corn bread) in Korean public middle schools in '68, that's when my wife met her first foreign teacher.
I'd expect the first western language teachers in Korea would have been (pre-occupation) Jesuits...probably English wasn't the first language to be taught... and later on people other sects. Sogang (195?), Ewha (1886), and Yonsei (1885) were started by religious foreigners. I've read about people who attended English classes in the late 1800s, taught by the wives of physician-missionaries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
when i was in Busan in 1996.. there were VERY VERY few hogwan teachers who'd been here for more than a year or two. (As opposed to now, when every 10th foreign person you meet says they've been here for 5-10 years already).
I heard once that the Olympics in 1988 kinda got Koreans more world-minded.. and maybe around early 1990s.. the whole foreign english teacher starting taking off..
That being said.. I believe Japan has had the ESL thing going on well before Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Chronicpride's name serves him right. I ask a serious question unearthing the basics behind a so-called serious-minded profession, for myself as well, and he debunks it all, disparaging me. If I wouldn't have submitted such a post I wouldn't have given a darn.
My main intention is to find out what the philosophy really was behind inviting english speakers, mind you, not teachers in the real sense of the word, to come to their countries. It doesn't seem to fit the bill, however, in a professional sense, as any sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professional oriented individual would like to believe.
This comes after 6 years experience. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rock wrote: |
Chronicpride's name serves him right. I ask a serious question unearthing the basics behind a (1) so-called serious-minded profession, for myself as well, and he debunks it all, disparaging me. If I wouldn't have submitted such a post I wouldn't have given a darn.
My main intention is to find out what the philosophy really was behind inviting english speakers, mind you, not(2)teachers in the real sense of the word, to come to their countries. (3) It doesn't seem to fit the bill, however, in a professional sense, as any sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professional oriented individual would like to believe.
This comes after 6 years experience. |
1. "So-called serious-minded profession"? Sounds like someone needs a hug. 
2. A piece of paper doesn't make you a teacher. You can be an effective teacher without a M.ED. Surely a "sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professsional oriented individual" like yourself should know this.
3. This is getting old. Really realllllllly old. Every other week we have someone post on here disparaging teaching here and claiming it's not the same as real teaching back home. For those people I'm sure there is a great teaching position back home for you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fat Sam
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Location: Gyeonggi-do
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Rock wrote: |
Chronicpride's name serves him right. I ask a serious question unearthing the basics behind a (1) so-called serious-minded profession, for myself as well, and he debunks it all, disparaging me. If I wouldn't have submitted such a post I wouldn't have given a darn.
My main intention is to find out what the philosophy really was behind inviting english speakers, mind you, not(2)teachers in the real sense of the word, to come to their countries. (3) It doesn't seem to fit the bill, however, in a professional sense, as any sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professional oriented individual would like to believe.
This comes after 6 years experience. |
1. "So-called serious-minded profession"? Sounds like someone needs a hug.
2. A piece of paper doesn't make you a teacher. You can be an effective teacher without a M.ED. Surely a "sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professsional oriented individual" like yourself should know this.
3. This is getting old. Really realllllllly old. Every other week we have someone post on here disparaging teaching here and claiming it's not the same as real teaching back home. For those people I'm sure there is a great teaching position back home for you. |
I was hoping to read an interesting account of the time-line that took Korea from the War through to the present, showing how English has become such a national obsession and why so many of us are here. Unfortunately, posts like the above chose to focus on the OP's choice of words to describe native English teachers.
I'd rather not point out that you only need a degree to teach here, whereas a professional teacher in our own countries would have to study further to be considered a 'real teacher'.
For those who answered the question, I would be interested to know when the hogwan era began and if anyone was amongst the first influx of English teachers and what it was like at the time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: Re: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| Jensen wrote: |
| mj roach wrote: |
| Peace Corps? |
Peace Corp didn't get going until the early '60s, they had English teachers (and US corn bread) in Korean public middle schools in '68, that's when my wife met her first foreign teacher.
I'd expect the first western language teachers in Korea would have been (pre-occupation) Jesuits...probably English wasn't the first language to be taught... and later on people other sects. Sogang (195?), Ewha (1886), and Yonsei (1885) were started by religious foreigners. I've read about people who attended English classes in the late 1800s, taught by the wives of physician-missionaries. |
Yes, missionary schools started English education, but don't forget the opening of the National School of Translation by the last king. The school actually produced very competent speakers of English using the Direct Method before the Japanese invasion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Re: The History Behind ESL Teaching |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Rock wrote: |
| Moreover, what's the future prospects for this field, seeing someone, somewhere, is bound to catch on that having native speakers just doesn't cut the mustard, at least not 100%. |
I will assume you are asking a serious question and not just trolling.
I've worked in hakwon and public schools. The hakwon kids that were exposed to numberous native speakers before me, spoke MUCH better (and coherent) English than the kids at my public school where I was the first native speaker, they'd ever had.
So it is better than nothing. And short of sending their kids overseas, which most Koreans can't afford, it is the best option. |
Why would you assume someone's trolling. 
You make a good point though. I was really impressed with some kids' English when I first came. I already had 2 years teaching ESL under my belt (Taiwan) and my first job I had this kindergarten class. I never did get paid for that. It was for less than a month in Bundang at a school that was changing owners who had screwed a few teachers. They had obviously been doing a good job. I was quite impressed.
I got some money out of that dork owner. Some. Still owes me 1.3. I think he owed some big wigs a lot more though. Oh well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fat Sam wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Rock wrote: |
Chronicpride's name serves him right. I ask a serious question unearthing the basics behind a (1) so-called serious-minded profession, for myself as well, and he debunks it all, disparaging me. If I wouldn't have submitted such a post I wouldn't have given a darn.
My main intention is to find out what the philosophy really was behind inviting english speakers, mind you, not(2)teachers in the real sense of the word, to come to their countries. (3) It doesn't seem to fit the bill, however, in a professional sense, as any sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professional oriented individual would like to believe.
This comes after 6 years experience. |
1. "So-called serious-minded profession"? Sounds like someone needs a hug.
2. A piece of paper doesn't make you a teacher. You can be an effective teacher without a M.ED. Surely a "sensible-minded, seriously seeking, professsional oriented individual" like yourself should know this.
3. This is getting old. Really realllllllly old. Every other week we have someone post on here disparaging teaching here and claiming it's not the same as real teaching back home. For those people I'm sure there is a great teaching position back home for you. |
(1) I was hoping to read an interesting account of the time-line that took Korea from the War through to the present, showing how English has become such a national obsession and why so many of us are here. Unfortunately, posts like the above chose to focus on the OP's choice of words to describe native English teachers.
(2) I'd rather not point out that you only need a degree to teach here, whereas a professional teacher in our own countries would have to study further to be considered a 'real teacher'.
(3) For those who answered the question, I would be interested to know when the hogwan era began and if anyone was amongst the first influx of English teachers and what it was like at the time. |
(numbers are mine)
1. I focused on his choice of words as they seemed to be chosen to attack those who live and work here.
2. So what? What does that have to do with someone's teaching ability?
3. I've heard that hakwons started back in the 80's. I don't think anyone here (except maybe MD) was around then.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
