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Faron
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ask him to go to a western style restaurant so you can introduce him to the American way. That way you'll get nice free american food and still have good relations with the boss.  |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Mandatory dinner. Would you go? |
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| Paji eh Wong wrote: |
I disagree with the "its the Korean way" camp as well. If they were interested in "the korean way" they would have hired a Korean teacher.
| swade wrote: |
In my heart I don��t wish to bend. |
Then don't. You just have to be prepared to live with some unintended consequences. |
They need a foreign teacher over a Korean one for so many reasons I feel it is stupid to list even one!
Also, I am agnostic, but when I go to a Christian family's house for dinner, I bow my head (though I don't pray) and I wait until they are done praying until I start. It's called respect. Spelled R E S P E C T incase you need to look it up.
Plus, you ever think when they bring someone here they are thinking this foreigner is coming to Korea and would maybe like to learn about Korea, it's customs, and try it's food. |
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stumptown
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Location: Paju: Wife beating capital of Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| I personally have never had any problems turning down dinners. Since I am told a few hours before dinner I always say that the notice is too late and I already have plans made. I don't but I don't want to listen to a bunch of Korean drama for 3 hours since I'm the only cracker in the group. |
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Chow
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Cheongju
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: |
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I do not buy the "when in Rome" garbage. Koreans use that to mean, "do what I say" but when Koreans (or any other persons from any other country) live in Canada, the U.S., England, etc, they tend to band together to form "Little Korea"s (or Chinatowns, etc.) and would scream bloody murder if any Native of their adopted country told them they have to eat more bread and less rice, stop using chopsticks, or waste an afternoon going to immigration to sign a worthless piece of paper (that one bugged the crap out of me!)
I love Korea, but I am not Korean. No one, in a free country, has the right to inflict their culture on me. I should be free to spend my free time however I choose, without fear of consequences, or even of souring relationships.
The "Korean Way" excuse drives me crazy! |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Chow wrote: |
The "Korean Way" excuse drives me crazy! |
You don't like the korean way? go and try the canadian way, or the zimbabwean way.. whatever fits in with your own personal ideals, without of course causing you the slightest inconvenience. 
I think that living in korea, you will find that most things are done "the korean way" and you will be looked down upon for deliberately doing otherwise.
As for those who think saying they have a previous engagement is a good enough excuse.. I seriously doubt it.
If people don't want to go to these things at least realise how much you will alienate yourself from the rest of the staff if you don't. Then think twice next time when you start to complain about icy relationships with the boss or korean co workers.. In korea these get togethers are good chances to build relationships. |
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Richard Krainium
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Why set yourself up to be the "wangta"? My god, how bad can it be to go out with the boss and your co-workers a few times during your stay. I just don't get it. To all those who said don't go, you're probably the same types who would do a runner. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| but you're not forced/pressured into attending |
You are kidding right? 
"forced" staff events exists back home too and there are many ways to "force" employees to attend. They might use other words but it boils down to a mandatory event. Anyway, I still maintain that this is no big deal and that socializing with co-workers is basically a good idea as it can foster a better working environment. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| If they give you any sort of notice, suck it up and go- at least once in a while. If not, then try to at least make an appearance before pleading out because of a "promise" |
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Xerxes
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: Down a certain (rabbit) hole, apparently
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but the OP poster seems to be a woman. If that is the case, the boss talking to you for an hour and a half or two about going to dinner seems creepy.
Just so. I worked at a high school and the department head would go boozing every single night, and would often try to bring the women along. The women would go, but they had a plan. They would all gang together and leave after the dinner all together as if by prior planning. The women are often spared the "old boy" business culture, so this works best. If the boss is indeed making it uncomfortable for you in that creepy way, gang together with the other women. Chances are, if he is that way to you, he has been that way to some other woman, and you are likely to get sympathy from the other women and they will, then, agree to include you in their gang walk out. If you are the only one invited, let slip to the other women that he invited you and that you don't want to go. They should take care of the rest and give the boss unholy hell for it, and you will still be able to group walk out. This still works with even one other woman worker.
It's the unlucky, low-paid, need-that-job-to-buy-formula-for-the-baby-at-home, Korean dude that's got it tough. Korean men hate it too, if that's any consolation. I have no idea why bosses do this. Employees always find fault on or off a full stomach, and the full stomach lasts only a few hours, at best.
I posted on another thread about the drinking manners that I painfully learned there (though I ended up getting to know a bunch of swank restaurants that my wife and I would later go to on our own--often times I translated for the big, big bosses with the big, big wallets for dinner for visiting VIP waygook). |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
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| but you're not forced/pressured into attending |
You are kidding right?
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No. Dead serious. Just out of curiousity, when are you going for your Korean citizenship exam? Probably sit in the front row too.
It's also less of a hassle to go to these things in Canada. I can remember my last xmas dinner in Canada before heading to Korea. (Note emphasis on 'remember'. There was no falling-down drunkenness.) We had dinner and a couple of drinks and went home. I couldn't imagine a dinner in Canada where mature older adults would shoot back shots of vodka, challenging each other like some college kids and then at the end of the night/morning stumble outside puking over each other.
It's a different culture - true. But, they and you can keep it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not averse to tying one on on occasion (especially my first year - ouch), but here it's forced upon you, it's too frequent, and too extreme. Hey, if you're 20 something fresh out of college, it's probably perfect for you - from one frat house to another. |
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anae
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: cowtown
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's the unlucky, low-paid, need-that-job-to-buy-formula-for-the-baby-at-home, Korean dude that's got it tough. Korean men hate it too, if that's any consolation |
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This is the number one reason we are in Canada. The kind of forced drinking that Korean men and women are often subjected is basically hazing. My husband hates this part of Korean culture.
He loves the workplace environment in Canada. Everyone goes to the get togethers that they want to attend. He gets to stop after a couple of beers and I am always invited as are the other spouses. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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pegpig,
I spoke from experience working here and back in Canada when I was a HS teacher in Ontario....
but...you want to take pot shots at me and toss around that tired, old and idiotic "apologist" label (the somewhat ridiculous citizenship test shot you took)...knock yourself out.
Now, on to your little rant..
| Quote: |
It's also less of a hassle to go to these things in Canada. I can remember my last xmas dinner in Canada before heading to Korea. (Note emphasis on 'remember'. There was no falling-down drunkenness.) We had dinner and a couple of drinks and went home. I couldn't imagine a dinner in Canada where mature older adults would shoot back shots of vodka, challenging each other like some college kids and then at the end of the night/morning stumble outside puking over each other.
It's a different culture - true. But, they and you can keep it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not averse to tying one on on occasion (especially my first year - ouch), but here it's forced upon you, it's too frequent, and too extreme. Hey, if you're 20 something fresh out of college, it's probably perfect for you - from one frat house to another. |
1- I did not find it less of a hassle to attend similar functions for my school back in Canada.
As for the binge drinking...my staff parties here don't look like that at all. My staff parties and functions back in Canada did not either but sometimes some people would drink to much.
I also worked in an office for a couple of years (consulting firm) while I was finishing my masters and the business meetings there mostly ended with drunk and pass out festivals...yet this happened in Canada...hmmmm....
As for the forced drinking...only an idiot lets himself be forced to drink or stay. If you understand the culture here, there are numerous ways to leave when you want or to refuse a drink without offending anyone. Of course, if you have no interest in the culture and norms and toss them into the "its all crap" box then you will completely miss the point and limit yourself to saying this culture is stupid (a very smart sounding statement).
2- Forced upon you.
Thats stupid. Nothing is forced upon you unless you let it happen. One can use judgement and common sense along with a little compromise, like go sometimes. A staff dinner on occasion is not a bad idea to help foster better work relations. If a person chooses not to attend and to isolate himself, thats a choice.
All I said was that there is a middle ground between not going at all and going all the time. I also said that a person refusing to attend any of these dinners will send the message to his co-workers that he has no real interest in getting to know them. In itself that is a personal choice. It is of course a choice that has consequences such as co-workers not going out of their way to be friendly and nice to you (why would they?). |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
pegpig,
I spoke from experience working here and back in Canada when I was a HS teacher in Ontario.... |
I never taught in Canada, so I wouldn't know. Did I teach in Korea? Debatable.
| Homer wrote: |
but...you want to take pot shots at me and toss around that tired, old and idiotic "apologist" label (the somewhat ridiculous citizenship test shot you took)...knock yourself out. |
Hey, I was pretty proud of myself with that one. Do you feel that apologist tag is unwarranted or just unwanted?
| Homer wrote: |
As for the binge drinking...my staff parties here don't look like that at all. My staff parties and functions back in Canada did not either but sometimes some people would drink to much.
I also worked in an office for a couple of years (consulting firm) while I was finishing my masters and the business meetings there mostly ended with drunk and pass out festivals...yet this happened in Canada...hmmmm.... |
So, your parties in Canada were wild pass-out drunken festivals, while your Korean parties are .......er tea parties? Now.......I don't know if even you believe that one.
| Homer wrote: |
Of course, if you have no interest in the culture and norms and toss them into the "its all crap" box then you will completely miss the point and limit yourself to saying this culture is stupid (a very smart sounding statement).
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I'm not sure where you pulled this one from. I spent 5 years in Korea. If I hated it that much I would've gotten out sooner. And, naturally one has to experience the culture, which I did. But, when you start 'blaming' everything on culture. Sheesh! That's too much.
| Homer wrote: |
All I said was that there is a middle ground between not going at all and going all the time. I also said that a person refusing to attend any of these dinners will send the message to his co-workers that he has no real interest in getting to know them. In itself that is a personal choice. It is of course a choice that has consequences such as co-workers not going out of their way to be friendly and nice to you (why would they?). |
I agree. There is a middle ground and that's what I and most non-alcoholic sane people believe. You can have dinner and a few drinks (and occasionally even a few too many), but not to alcoholic proportions and not on a regular basis.
I gotta get back to the off-topic forum. This serious shit is giving me a headache and making me feel like I'm back in Korea. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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A dinner? No problem
Weekly dinners....take the odd one.
Monthly dinners? No problem
Go eat and bow out early if you really are not enjoying yourself.
On hour or two of free food and booze to make your boss happy is a heck of alot different from an hour or two of free teaching |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I go to these things whenever they ask (and even if they give me two hours notice as long as I truly don't have other plans). I have only gotten really drunk twice so far, and I was quite happy with that. The other times I just opted out. Plus, unlike some of the posters here, if you actually payed attention to people other than yourselves, you would notice they have found ways aroound this too. They often don't drink even half of what is poured. They pour a lot of the soju into soup or a water cup that they won't use. There are lots of ways to refuse, and even more way not to refuse drinking lots of soju while not drinking a lot. Next time you go out, trying watching the others. |
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