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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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Nowhere Man wrote: |
Goph, let's clear something up. Do you advocate an independent counsel investigation of Bush, or shall we sit on our hands some more? |
I disagree with Gore on several points here. One is his recommendation to charge an independent counsel to persecute W. Bush.
The independent counsel is a partisan weapon -- inquisition or witch hunt, take your pick -- wielded by one party or another because they are intolerant of the other side and want to harass them while they occupy the White House. I do not want to see anymore independent counsel investigations in my lifetime. Waste of money; waste of time.
I want the Senate and the House to grow a pair and start checking the executive through much more vigorous hearings, through censure, and through clear-message legislative action like what we just saw coming from McCain on torture. This is not only their constitutional right, but their duty if they want the republic to function as it is supposed to function. So that is the way to go, and I agree with Gore on this point wholeheartedly.
Independent counsels are character assassins and backstabbers, no more, no less. Congress is a coequal branch of government, or at least it is supposed to be.
And, ultimately, there is only one bottom line here: I like Gore's views enough to have voted for him in 2000. I passed this speech onto readers here because it reminds me why I voted for him. I believe that many in America respect and agree with much of what he said in D.C. And if he keeps talking like this, I'm going to nominate him myself in 2008. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:52 am Post subject: |
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I agree Congress should grow a pair and use 'clear-message legislative action'. However, Bush has been reserving the right to ignore legislation as and when he sees fit:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1149361,00.html
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A somewhat legal law is a little like a somewhat pregnant woman. At first blush, it seems like an absurdity. But President Bush disagrees. In the past five years, quietly but systematically, he has been arguing that the law doesn't always apply to him. How has he done this? By attaching "signing statements" that spell out his own attitude to bills he signs. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: ... |
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Quote: |
I disagree with Gore on several points here. One is his recommendation to charge an independent counsel to persecute W. Bush. |
Explanation please?
Was "persecute" as opposed to "prosecute" a hiccup or a Freudian slip?
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Privateer wrote: |
I agree Congress should grow a pair and use 'clear-message legislative action'. However, Bush has been reserving the right to ignore legislation as and when he sees fit:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1149361,00.html
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A somewhat legal law is a little like a somewhat pregnant woman. At first blush, it seems like an absurdity. But President Bush disagrees. In the past five years, quietly but systematically, he has been arguing that the law doesn't always apply to him. How has he done this? By attaching "signing statements" that spell out his own attitude to bills he signs. |
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Congress has constitutionally-derived weapons to deal with that.
If it is as flagrant as the critics are alleging (if they are not simply unhappy with his policies and intolerant of him as a right-winger, that is, if there is really something there), Congress can remove him from office, you know. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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Nowhere Man wrote: |
Quote: |
I disagree with Gore on several points here. One is his recommendation to charge an independent counsel to persecute W. Bush. |
Explanation please?
Was "persecute" as opposed to "prosecute" a hiccup or a Freudian slip?
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I do not use words by accident.
Look it up if it isn't clear to you. |
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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Did Al Gore invent the internet? I wonder what else he likes to invent?
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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fiveeagles wrote: |
Did Al Gore invent the internet? I wonder what else he likes to invent?
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I dunno, but you should really be looking to the GOP, who are the masters of invention. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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I knew that Gore invented the internet. What is news to me is that he moonlighted as Commander Riker. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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The problem with the independent counsel is not the law, but its misuse. That ought to be able to be handled rather easily by stating what types of infractions it can be used for.
Your alternative suggestions, as you have claimed about calling out Bush at all, is that they are totally unrealistic. That being the case, they come off as mere apologistic poop for ol' Dumbya. |
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: ... |
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OK, Goph, I think you've made it clear.
You call people out on this forum for criticizing Bush, but post Gore's "helluva speech" in which you say he is calling for Bush "persecution".
You suggest that posters on this forum are wrong to call for more investigations and possible impeachment of Bush because they're following some tit-for-tat, 2-wrongs-don't-make-a-right flawed logic.
However, when a Bush-appointed crony (Michael Braun) horrifically fumbles the worst natural disaster in modern US history, you are quick to point out JFK appointing Bobby Kennedy to handle the Bay of Pigs.
That is a blatant contradiction.
You speak of some posters' intolerance of your position, but you are consistently intolerant of those left of yours, as if you occupy some definitive position of what proper liberal attitudes should be when, in fact, you say very little about your position that can de definitively defined as liberal, other than that you don't want to be a Republican.
In support of this:
-you spend far more time attacking liberals on this board than you do conservatives
-you spend far more time defending Bush than criticizing him
-you've taken up the stance that critics of the war in Iraq don't spend enough time condemning terrorists rather than the Bush administration. Where are your anti-terrorist posts? Or is this just a silly proposition to start with? You spend more time assailing Canada than you do Iraqi insurgents or Al Quaeda.
-then you entertain us by stating that you're going to vote for McCain/Powell if liberals don't give up their "hysteria"
Here's an idea: Give up the ghost. You're a moderate Republican.
Threatening to vote against liberals unless they adopt your mindset is a baby game.
What I'm saying is go ahead and vote your mind. I really don't care if I'm a minority and you think I'm an extremist. "Extremist" is your word.
My word for you is "flaccid". Perhaps we're both guilty of labeling, but I don't see any evidence that your label is "righter" than mine (although there might be a pun in there).
What I heard in Al Gore's speech was spine. It's interesting that you can be amazed by this speech when its main drive was for Bush to ultimately be impeached while you go on to label it persecution.
No, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Yes, that is very interesting. |
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