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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| He does sound bitter. What do you have against F visa holders anyway BBE? |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing Jinju-sock. Just making a point. Why did you have to log into another sock just to post? You just made the sock last week.
Virtually every apologist on this board is a non-E-2 holder. I have nothing against those on visas other than E-2's. Some day, I might be on a non-E-2 visa. I won't be a stuffy apologist jumping all over newbies and those venting about difficulties here, however. |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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You don't know me, BBE, so don't try to label me. You end up looking like a fool.
My posts, infrequent as they are, try to provide information and help.
I'll "justify" (a better word than "apologize" for) Koreans' actions when I want to.
I'll also criticize them when I want, and I'll compliment them when I want to. I think everyone here should have a good balance of the two, in order to remain sane.
I'm on a E2 visa. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| You sound rather bitter. |
He is
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| You won't be missed in Korea or on these forums. |
He would be missed, who else makes such an easy target for mocking. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| BigBlackEquus wrote: |
Nothing Jinju-sock. Just making a point. Why did you have to log into another sock just to post? You just made the sock last week.
Virtually every apologist on this board is a non-E-2 holder. I have nothing against those on visas other than E-2's. Some day, I might be on a non-E-2 visa. I won't be a stuffy apologist jumping all over newbies and those venting about difficulties here, however. |
Theres something really wrong with you. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Unless you're only here a short while, or you're living strictly "by the numbers" and never drawing outside the lines of your colouring book, then Korea's probably going to be a far easier place to deal with if you've got a native for a spouse or S.O. Sure, the F-something visa usually comes with that. But visas by themselves don't determine who's a "stuffy apologist jumping all over newbies and those venting about difficulties here" and who's a two-dimensional Korea-basher. I think ill-breeding plays a bigger hand. |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
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To sum up:
Are any of the apologists on this board E-2 holders?
Hmm. I would have to say 1/3 are E-2s. The other 2/3 of apologists are f2s. I know there are others, but for the most part we're talking about teachers and the f4s (or whatever) are insignificant (in numbers).
Chances are f2's, for the most part, have been here longer and have had a chance to fall in love with Korea.
Also, they're married, so they perhaps feel they 'have' to defend their mate's country.
I was an f2 and liked Korea (not loved - some things are lovable). I tell it like I see it. |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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The simplest thing to understand is that they don't agree with you. When you come on here and post about how silly korea is, they have seen it all before and downplay what you're saying. I understand that you are seeing "new" things and they are often negative, then you want to vent or rant on here and an "apologist" will come and deflate you.
The truth is this....adapt or go. The "apologists" that you are talking about are people with experience and knowledge who generally are tired of hearing about the same shocking things. You say "apologist" like it is a dirty word but really they just make a point of showing the other side of an arguement. Rational thinking will always win out. (I don't mean me...I am often irrational  .) |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| I think ill-breeding plays a bigger hand. |
Are you sure you didn't mean in-breeding?  |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| TUM wrote: |
| You sound rather bitter. If you hate Korea so much leave. You won't be missed in Korea or on these forums. |
There's no guarantee that his departure from Korea would also lead to his departure from this forum (and who am I to talk...).
There are people whose hatred of Korea keeps them posting here for years after leaving the big K.
Not that the OP nurses grudges against F2 holders, Canadians in Korea, Dave's ESL, or people who smile...
| Jinju wrote: |
| Theres something really wrong with you. |
This is not new information.
Anyway, each post added to this troll thread - including this one - results in the Almighty killing a kitten. FYI. |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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TMKATM, I hate cats.
...do you? |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| I think ill-breeding plays a bigger hand. |
Are you sure you didn't mean in-breeding? |
No, he meant ill-breeding. In-breeding is what causes things like funky teeth that require implants. 
And hello, Lemon. Yet another non-E-2 from the past. Another former mod who is likely posting under another sock, for all we know.
Again, for the rest of, if you read earlier in the thread, you will see that I'm not saying becoming a non-E-2 makes someone an apologist. Don't try to put words in my mouth.
The thing that you find, if you ask teachers around Korea who have spent time on Dave's yet don't post here is this: past the general information, this board is full of people who make it not fun because they are stuck-up and jump all over newbies who ask questions. There is a sort of uppity clique of folks who enjoy ganging-up and doing this. This sort of behavior seems to be indicative of the apologists.
When a newbie comes on here, has some trouble, and posts something perceived as "negative" by the apologist crowd, this know-it-all group then jumps on them and says things like, "Why don't you just leave Korea?"
Is the word, "apologist" a bad word? I guess it has become one here on Dave's. My point, as I have shown, is that most of the apologist crowd are overly-proud gyopos or people who have an established life here with a non-E-2 visa, or have a spouse to smooth out the racism, communication problems, etc. (or they are people who used to live here, but just lurk on here because of their own social issues). Most are, for their own reasons, the ones who endured it and stayed. Whether that makes them "better" or "nuts" is up for debate. Again, as I have stated over and over again in this thread, just because someone is here on a non-E-2 does not make them an apologist.
I know one thing is for sure -- the apologists are NOT the same as the average person who comes here and lives in Korea. Most people who come to Korea end up leaving in under a year. Why? Because it is not an easy place to live and put up with. If it were, a lot more people would stay, and salaries would suck. Talking about the reasons why people come to hate it here, warning others about pitfalls, and saying I don't approve of it appears to make me a whiner.
So be it.
I have no interest in joining the apologist crowd, however, because I don't feel the need to jump on newbees to make myself feel above someone.
Some people vent here, and take out their frustrations that way. Others pick on newbees here, try to puff themselves up, and compensate for their disgust at whatever is eating them at the time. There is little difference.
There are a lot of things I like about Korea. If I hated it as much as you seem to think I do, I would have left a long time ago. The good outweighs the bad for me. I have no interest, however, in sugar-coating the racism, the wife-beating, the tax cheating of teachers, the awful immigration problems, the unfair business practices, the crappy educational system, or the hurry-hurry mentality, etc., that makes Korea the hubcap of Asia it is.
I enjoy helping newbees on here. I answer questions before they come here. I meet them. I show them around town. I offer advice when their bosses try to screw them over.
I don't jump all over them and gang up on them like the wild-dog apologist pack does. |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| And hello, Lemon. Yet another non-E-2 from the past. |
1. When I lived and taught in Korea, it was with an E-2.
I never held anything else, not even a tourist visa, in my five years there. You are dead wrong. That foreign men could have obtained an F-2 or whatever it is for spouses of Koreans, was a relatively recent development and wasn't available to me for most of my time there.
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| Yet another non-E-2 from the past. Another former mod who is likely posting under another sock, for all we know. |
2. Well, you're Derrek who is likely still trolling Dave's ESL, for all we know.
I rarely visit here more often than every week or two, and I do so mainly to check PMs in this account - strangely, I still get them.
For the record, this is the only account I've used in well over a year. Again, you are dead wrong - twice in one post! - but I know that won't slow you down.
Yesterday I just dipped into the forums to see what was happening, and picked this thread at random. I determined that there's not much different happening. Whiners vs apologists, Derrek vs Earth.
Seriously, the premise of the thread is so absurd, it really is trollbait. You're telling me the bulk of the people who have nice things to say about Korea from time to time are non E-2 holders? Nonsense. Most of my colleagues in Korea were content there - and most are still there - and they also held E-2s.
I probably wouldn't work in Korea again, mainly because it doesn't pay enough. But I certainly don't hate the place. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| BBE is clearly trolling with this thread. Seriously, is it news that people with F visas will have more good things to say about Korea than bad things? An F vis holder has been here for a while, has tangible ties to the place and is established here. No wonder these people will have good things to say about Korea. Doesnt mean E2 holders dont have good things to say about the place. And lastly, calling people who have a positive view of this country "apologists" is offensive and absurd. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| You're telling me the bulk of the people who have nice things to say about Korea from time to time are non E-2 holders? |
I agreed with your post till this. There is a distinct difference between someone who has "nice things to say about Korea from time to time" and an apologist. And you know that very well Lemon! |
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