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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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What an absolutely pointless post .
America wins ????
Ok you win  |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| waggo wrote: |
What an absolutely pointless post .
America wins ????
Ok you win |
Wins, as in they win the numbers game. I actually don't care too much about the whole thing. What I said in my first post in this thread is what I stand by. The people who will really win are the students who don't see a teacher getting bent out of shape over such a foolish thing.
Cheers. |
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| denverdeath wrote: |
| waggo wrote: |
What an absolutely pointless post .
America wins ????
Ok you win |
Wins, as in they win the numbers game. I actually don't care too much about the whole thing. What I said in my first post in this thread is what I stand by. The people who will really win are the students who don't see a teacher getting bent out of shape over such a foolish thing.
Cheers. |
Ok...Ill let you off because your first post nailed it.  |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| keithinkorea wrote: |
There is a clue in how English should be pronounced. Where does the language come from? A 'warder' is someone who works in a prison.
My Korean is weak, but when I speak it do with standard Seoul satori. I don't try and speak like a resident of Jeju or Cholla province.
The international standard of English is British English. North Americans can't even agree on spelling. |
You argue in favour of speaking with the accent used by the population and economic hub of Korea, yet argue against the teaching accent used by the population and economic hub of the English world?
Even playing the historical card doesn't work because Seoul was a conquered city and since it was made the captial at the start of the Joseon Dynasty and through to the end of the kingdom (and became a self-proclaimed "empire"), Korea had not pushed out any borders nor contributed to any great project known outside of Korea. In contrast, Korea lost territory, had no influence outside her borders, became a virtual slave state with 80% of the population being slaves, and was openly hostile to the neighbors.
Just saying... |
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Picotrain
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| To put the old "university learnin'" to use, the "t" sound heard in the words "water" and "butter" is called a "flap". It occurs any time a "t" or "d" is located in an intervocalic position (i.e. between vowels). This is found in nearly all North American dialects of English. It is less common amongst other English speakers. Basically, as the name would indicate, the tounge flaps up to the roof of your mouth and taps the palette. For this reason some people refer to the "flap" as a "tap". Not having a "t" or "d" sound in these words should be considered quite normal, even in standard English, for a North American speaker. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Picotrain wrote: |
| To put the old "university learnin'" to use, the "t" sound heard in the words "water" and "butter" is called a "flap". It occurs any time a "t" or "d" is located in an intervocalic position (i.e. between vowels). This is found in nearly all North American dialects of English. It is less common amongst other English speakers. Basically, as the name would indicate, the tounge flaps up to the roof of your mouth and taps the palette. For this reason some people refer to the "flap" as a "tap". Not having a "t" or "d" sound in these words should be considered quite normal, even in standard English, for a North American speaker. |
Thanks for the refresher. Isn't the phonetic representation "/D/" or something? |
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Picotrain
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| In standard IPA it's a kind of small "r", but it looks more like an upside-down hook. After looking it up on the net, I read that it is alveolar, not palatal, but every time I make it it seems to tap the palatte as opposed to the alveolar ridge. |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| keithinkorea wrote: |
There is a clue in how English should be pronounced. Where does the language come from? A 'warder' is someone who works in a prison.
My Korean is weak, but when I speak it do with standard Seoul satori. I don't try and speak like a resident of Jeju or Cholla province.
The international standard of English is British English. North Americans can't even agree on spelling. |
You argue in favour of speaking with the accent used by the population and economic hub of Korea, yet argue against the teaching accent used by the population and economic hub of the English world?
Even playing the historical card doesn't work because Seoul was a conquered city and since it was made the captial at the start of the Joseon Dynasty and through to the end of the kingdom (and became a self-proclaimed "empire"), Korea had not pushed out any borders nor contributed to any great project known outside of Korea. In contrast, Korea lost territory, had no influence outside her borders, became a virtual slave state with 80% of the population being slaves, and was openly hostile to the neighbors.
Just saying... |
What you of poor grammar? My Englishee speaking not good, you wanna die? Really, I love to wind up some North Americans with their silly and arrogant notions of American vs standard English. I love to yank people's chains sometimes. Please forgive me 
Communication and clarity are key. When I see some of those English teaching idiots on EBS and other channels I want to cringe. They teach a degraded form of English, the same goes for those stupid konglish chants.
We're all pretty aware of differences between American and standard English and the fact that languages evolve and vary in their usage in different areas of the world. New words are invented every day and others discarded as they become culturally less important.
Koreans learners of English need to know that there is more to English than the American accent. Language is about communication and not all Koreans go to the US or are obsessed with the US. If they need English they may have to use it in pretty much any country in the world.
Jejudo people speak Seoul satori with outsiders but Jeju satori with fellow Jejudites. One of the most interesting things on my trip to Jeju was understanding almost as much of the spoken Korean in Jeju satori as my Seoul satori speaking fiance 
English is bigger than both than the North American continent and little Britain. English is a world language and has no fixed standard. The only reason that some Koreans want American English is that they are ignorant of the reality in the world.
I'm just yanking chains! Dont take offence, I have loads of North American friends. |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| keithinkorea: I think you've got to get away from the term "standard English". I think we ALL agree that there is NO "standard English". You can't possibly be saying that everyone in England speaks with the same accent! I'm sure that there are some regional vocabulary differences as well. Perhaps saying "American English", "British English", "Australian English" would better serve... |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| keithinkorea: I think you've got to get away from the term "standard English". I think we ALL agree that there is NO "standard English". You can't possibly be saying that everyone in England speaks with the same accent! I'm sure that there are some regional vocabulary differences as well. Perhaps saying "American English", "British English", "Australian English" would better serve... |
Your opinion is respected and I think very valid. Sometimes I get annoyed with north American types shoving their 'standard' English down my throat, this issue is annoying to me as a brit. Sometimes these discussion drive me wild and I apologise for that.
Respect
K |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Just teach 'em what you have. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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The Brits "invented" English, ah well, actually they "managed" English for a time as various groups of settlers and conquerors mixed their various languages into the British English of old.
English has now left the control of the isles. The world has it. Almost no one in the world, outside of a small minority in Britain, speak "British". It's in the historical past of English. One of the roots, but no longer the tree.
It is really silly to argue that people in New Zealand or India speak "British". They might borrow the spelling, for now, but not the sound. Sorry for the British language patriots, but the current standard sound, grammar and spelling is the American. The peoples of the world mixed and fixed the language. It's changed. It's new and improved. But that's also silly to worry about. Asia will have it next. If Keithinkorea manages to live long enough, he'll get to go back to school and have some young Chinese or Indian teach him how to properly speak and spell. But, at least they'll have one thing in common, they can both lament that bad North American English.
As far as "wader" or "water", I let the students use whichever pronunciation they can make that lets them be most clearly understood. I help each student, individually, master their own best sound. The point is communication. Not some foolish Brit/Am competition. |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
The Brits "invented" English, ah well, actually they "managed" English for a time as various groups of settlers and conquerors mixed their various languages into the British English of old.
English has now left the control of the isles. The world has it. Almost no one in the world, outside of a small minority in Britain, speak "British". It's in the historical past of English. One of the roots, but no longer the tree.
It is really silly to argue that people in New Zealand or India speak "British". They might borrow the spelling, for now, but not the sound. Sorry for the British language patriots, but the current standard sound, grammar and spelling is the American. The peoples of the world mixed and fixed the language. It's changed. It's new and improved. But that's also silly to worry about. Asia will have it next. If Keithinkorea manages to live long enough, he'll get to go back to school and have some young Chinese or Indian teach him how to properly speak and spell. But, at least they'll have one thing in common, they can both lament that bad North American English.
As far as "wader" or "water", I let the students use whichever pronunciation they can make that lets them be most clearly understood. I help each student, individually, master their own best sound. The point is communication. Not some foolish Brit/Am competition. |
Yanking the chain. It's a hoot.
How many countries have you been to that use English ontheway?
You sound like an apologist to me. |
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