Korean Job Discussion Forums

[daniellelievre]

Man, I've been looking for a job in Seoul for a while now and I am absolutely amazed at how bad these offers and contracts you get are. It's incredible! I don't know how anybody could sign on for any of this stuff. Is it just me or is there always some hitch with a recruiter's offer, you get one good thing and one horrible thing? I tell you what, I'm ready to call it quits and get a job in the US or New Zealand after these offers. What can I do to get out of this bad karma?

[Grotto]

Stick to your guns.

Part of the problem is: there are so many people who come over here, sign the first contract put in front of them(I did) that the recruiters and hogwan owners keep feeding upon this pool of new bodies. Until newb's wise up and stop accepting these crap contracts, conditions wont improve!

[jinju]

[Yu_Bum_suk]

And email them back informing them that their contracts are pathetic and they'll be very lucky to get anyone remotely reliable for what they're offering.

[Homer]

Newbies who sign bad contracts are indeed a common occurence.

However, at one point, you have to take the plunge and go with the flow if you want to work here. To me that meant accepting a certain level of uncertainty.

Also, and this cannot be said often enough: before trashing an offer...you need to talk to the people who work at the school. They, and only they, can tell you how the work conditions are. Sometimes a short conversation with a fellow teacher at the school will clear up what you considered to be ambiguitites in the contract.

A couple of tips to keep in mind as a newbie are also to be reasonable in your expectations and know the market offers for non-experienced teachers in Korea. It is no use for example rejecting contract after contract because a person feels they are worth more when in reality the market states that newbies get this salary for that many hours....

In short:

Know the market (and your value in it)
Accept a normal amount of risk (read normal)
Talk to teachers on staff

or

Just give up and move on to something else if this bothers you too much.

As for your current situation, it might help if you told us exactly what you expect in a job offer at this point and what is your background (experience and degree for example).

[vox]

...that certain experiences in the West don't translate well over here and nobody says boo about it. Take the recent "camps" for example. Western camps (science camp, choir camp, scout camp, etc etc) require dynamic young adults to run them. But Koreans use the word 'camp' for something that is just a school. Actually I just learned that supposedly among Koreans English camp is called English army or English troop and telling your friends you've been signed up for it usually draws condolences, 'oh I'm sorry brother/sister'

Same thing with Engish village - I'm getting some horror stories about English village which sounds like English Disneyland but unless people talk and post why should newbies know? They have to have posts to read when they do their research on a school /Uruk-hai orcpit hagwon contract offer.

[Homer]

I agree vox...asking questions here has its uses.

However, you and I or others here (unless we worked at a particular school being asked about) cannot comment about the actual working conditions at the school. Teachers who are there can.

This means that advice here should be a complement to talking to teachers on staff, not a basis for accepting or rejecting a job.

[daniellelievre]

There are some things I am looking for of course, no kindy, no split shift, single housing, decent part of Seoul (no suburbs). Oh, maybe more than 3 days of paid vacation and no Saturdays? Hmmm, doesn't seem like too much to me, but apparently that's too much to ask for. I'm perfectly willing to take some risk, but when I get a contract and the school refuses to edit out the part where I have to pay back my recruiting fee and the entire plane ticket if I leave after 6 months, I have to pass.

[canuckistan]

When I perused offers while still in Canada, I was disappointed as well.
I could see the holes big enough to drive a truck through if I signed a contract and got flown over by a school. I decided to fly to Seoul on my own.
Recruiters and schools got a lot more serious once they knew I was IN Korea and coming to look at the school/apartment first.

It was good move; within 5 days I had a decent job and a decent apt.

[Grotto]

Homer wrote:

[margaret]

[Homer]

Well, Grotto...of course you can fall on some idiot foreign teacher who will lie to you about conditions in the school...then again, you could also get hit by a bus on your way to the airport...


Also, I never mentionned signing a contract set to cheat you (rape was an idiot drama queen word to use by the way). I said take the plunge as in accept a certain amount of uncertainty that comes with every move to a different country.

Also, nit picking a contract to death will help no one. Contracts should be set up to protect both parties, yes the school is a party here grotto.

So, to be clear: I would not advise anyone to sign a conract that is set up to cheat them. Then again, I would say that accepting a reasonable amount of uncertainty is part of the game here....

As for your example about a teacher not giving the full monty...well it did not seem you asked any relevant questions beyond "is it a good school and would you recommend it" and that is rather vague...

If you were to consider this school...perhaps a few precise questions might be better..such as

How are the conditions there?

How is the working relationship between the boss and staff?

How are the students?

The curriculum?

Support for teachers?

and so on...

Finally...and once more...

Homer, why cant you just admit that a 'fair' contract for both parties is beneficial in the short and long run? Why on earth do you keep telling people that bad contracts dont really mean anything?

I don't need to admit that since I stated many times before this is what I thought...secondly...I don't tell anyone that bad contracts do not mean anything...that is you putting words into my mouth to further yourself or bash me (still undecided as to which)...

I said most contracts in Korea contain a certain amount of uncertainty.

Also...a mutually beneficial contract according to you seems to be one where the teacher has all the marbles and the school none....hardly fair.

As for Son Deuro...I agreed with his basics list many times since he posted it...so I have no idea what you are on about with that one Grotto.

[Son Deureo!]