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Raising kids in Canada vs. Korea
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Ody

Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:22 am Post subject:

laogaiguk wrote:

but the family is always the last to know any major problems.

do you think you will be the last to know when you're a parent, or will your extensive experience make you more (maybe even hyper) aware?

.

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:28 am Post subject:

Ody wrote:

laogaiguk wrote:

but the family is always the last to know any major problems.

do you think you will be the last to know when you're a parent, or will your extensive experience make you more (maybe even hyper) aware?

.

I'm not even going to bother with that one. Hyperaware of their children's actions? I have yet to meet a parent with this special magic relationship with their children.

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:39 am Post subject:

Ody, I've read your posts and you seem quite concerned about your child's future, a very good sign of a good parent. Also the way you handle yourself in the thread shows that as well. But all of the parents on here make be beleive even more in parenting licences (ie no one should have a child before taking a parenting course). The parents here take too much for granted and some of them seem to have a bit of a superiority complex that is totally unfounded. The thing about children is their unpredicibility. But parenting licences (which should be implemented everywhere, especially the crappy parents I have seen in my life) is another thread entirely.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:26 am Post subject:

laogaiguk wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

1. Canada has its social misfits as well. However they generally tend to act out in more violent ways than their Korean counterparts. Guns in schools, drugs, violence.

(A)Any statistics to back this up other than seeing one school from each place. Personally, if you watch Korean shows at all, the amount of violence and bullying in those dramas in the schools is much, much worse than the current no-tolerance policies in Canada (though the no-tolerance policies are bit too much)

Quote:

2. I have a job in the public school system and so far I haven't seen any of these problems. However I have seen them as a student in Canada.

"Kids isolated and treated badly"---certainly in Canada (see social misfits above)

"Students beat down to study"--depends on what you mean "beat down"

"Jingoistic, nationalistic platitudes passing as education"--not much worse than the watered down political correctness passing for education in Canada.

Can you speak Korean at an advanced level? I can tell when I'm around my teachers also hold back (for some reason?). Are you always around? (B) DO you even know what is a normal form of bullying here? It's a different culture. Point being your statements are way too grand for the facts you gave.

Quote:

3. Racism--albeit more hidden is still present

As for "older men with teenage girls"--that's legal in Canada. 14 is the age of consent. Seems that Canada shouldn't be pointing any fingers.

Canadian age of consent laws wrote:

(a) is twelve years of age or more but under the age of sixteen years;

(b) is less than two years older than the complainant; and

http://www.ageofconsent.com/canada.htm

(D)No adult can sleep with anyone underage. The law forbids it. They are only talking about a 16 year old sleeping with a 14 or 15 year old.

Quote:

4. Certainly not a rose garden, but neither is Canada. As for kids "spending all their free time in front of a computer" Canada is rapidly heading that way as well.

(E)We do not have three channels devoted to playing video games

Quote:

5. My niece does quite well at her school. Everybody has different experiences.

(F)Maybe she it, but the family is always the last to know any major problems.

(Letters are mine)

A. http://www.emergency-management.net/school_shoot.htm Two incidents right there in Canada. Haven't heard of anything similar in Korea

B. Bullying in Canada is just as common. Type in school bullying in Canada and look at the schoolarly articles. About a third of Canadian students report some kind of bullying. That statistic comes from "Bullying at School-A Canadian Perspective" (one of said schoolarly articles)

C. You haven't read it clearly. Read it again.

D. Read this part 150 (1)"....in respect of a complainant who is UNDER the age of 14 years.."

(2)."..but UNDER the age of 14 years.."

and read (4) as well. If the defendant believed she was 14 that is a valid excuse if he took "all reasonable steps" to ascertain her age.

(Capitals are mine). It may be hard to believe but 14 is considered consentual sex in Canada. There is NO age barrier. Only if the person is in a position of authority over the other, like a teacher or guardian, then it becomes an offense. This is a well-known fact. Do some more reading.
If you read through the entire act you will seen that UNDER 14 is mentioned as a criminal act. It only becomes a criminal act if the person over 14 (but under 1 Cool

is engaging in sex with a person who is in a position of authority or trust over the complainent.

E. My point though was to show that not all mixed kids are bullied or harrassed (in whatever form)

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:04 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

(Letters are mine)

A. http://www.emergency-management.net/school_shoot.htm Two incidents right there in Canada. Haven't heard of anything similar in Korea

First of all, only 2. That is not widespread. Plus, hearing about things like this in Korea isn't the easiest of things to do. But here is more than enough to counter those isolated cases. Seriously, before you make an opinion, you should check out the other side too. Sometimes it's easy to make a mistake, but typing violence, Korea, and school into google creates quite a few hits

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23971

http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=22103

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200506/kt2005061419145911970.htm

Quote:

B. Bullying in Canada is just as common. Type in school bullying in Canada and look at the schoolarly articles. About a third of Canadian students report some kind of bullying. That statistic comes from "Bullying at School-A Canadian Perspective" (one of said schoolarly articles)

Did you type the same thing into google for Korea? You get things like this...
Schoolgirls Held for Brutal Bullying
Add in it is much more transparent in Canada too, as here they are just starting to realize bullying is even bad, let alone start studying it. Finally, Canada has a NO-tolerance policy. Korea has a we'll beat you too with a stick policy. The other points I can see an argument, but this one is a little unbelievable.

Quote:

C. You haven't read it clearly. Read it again.

Hey, you're right, that should be changed!
Still, I was nitpicking with you. The previous arguement of that being used for raising your children here instead of Canada is really bad (not too mention the rest of what was in #2 of that post). Really! How many children are affected by this compared to Korea. And since we are more talking about the school systems, teenage girls sometimes go to the noraebang with single male teachers here, bet that doesn't happen too often back home.

Quote:

E. My point though was to show that not all mixed kids are bullied or harrassed (in whatever form)

I'll say it again for I beleive the 5th time in this thread, how do you know your niece isn't being bullied?

Homer
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:07 am Post subject:

Quote:

I'll say it again for I beleive the 5th time in this thread, how do you know your niece isn't being bullied?

True enough but, for arguments sake, what better chance would you have of knowing this were you raising your kid in Canada?

Bullying happens and it does not happen in front of teachers and cops.....

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:14 am Post subject:

Homer wrote:

Quote:

I'll say it again for I beleive the 5th time in this thread, how do you know your niece isn't being bullied?

True enough but, for arguments sake, what better chance would you have of knowing this were you raising your kid in Canada?

Bullying happens and it does not happen in front of teachers and cops.....

Teachers are trained to look for it (my sister and cousin are both teachers, high school and elementary), which does not happen here (I've asked). Plus teachers back home are more responsible if there is a big problem and they find out it was because of bullying. That is more than enough to have a better chance of finding bullying compared to Korea.

JZer

Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:08 am Post subject:

Quote:

ha, I am not Canadian so don't discredit my point but what proof do you have that teachers back home are more responsible. Just because your sister is does not mean the majority are. You asked the Urban Myth to back up his assertions. Now can you do the same or are we left to anecdotal evidence.

I cannot speak for Canada but when I was in school we still had some old school teachers that believed that it is good to let the children sort out their own problems. Sometimes that included turning their backs to fighting.

JZer

Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:12 am Post subject:

Can anyone here even speak Korean well enough to assertain what goes on in public schools in Korea? Until then I think most of our comments including my own are purely theoretical.

kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:00 am Post subject:

JZer wrote:

Can anyone here even speak Korean well enough to assertain what goes on in public schools in Korea? Until then I think most of our comments including my own are purely theoretical.

Unless of course we've worked there.

Homer
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:

Quote:

Teachers are trained to look for it (my sister and cousin are both teachers, high school and elementary), which does not happen here (I've asked).

I'm sorry but as someone who was a teacher back in Canada for a few years all I can say to that is.... Laughing

You can train teachers all you want, they will still be the last ones to know if a kid gets bullied. Why? Because it happens mostly off school grounds and teachers are so busy with their other tasks that they simply do not have the time to notice this.

As for teachers being responsible...thats just not true. If it were in our law suit happy society...teachers would for the most part do nothing.

Jzer: Can anyone here even speak Korean well enough to assertain what goes on in public schools in Korea? Until then I think most of our comments including my own are purely theoretical.

I can speak Korean well enough to understand what is beign said and what goes on. This till will not unearth bullies...because they don't talk about it much now do they?

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject:

JZer wrote:

Quote:

You misunderstood my use of the word "responsible". I mean the society holds them more resposible if there is a major problem and the cause was bullying that wasn't checked Smile

Turning your back as a teacher nowadays is not a good career move.

Mr. Pink

Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject:

laogaiguk wrote:

Homer wrote:

laogaiguk,

While I think your opinion has merit and should not be dismissed simply because you have no kids, I think there is still a vast difference between the opinion of a non-parent and the opinion of a parent. This is for the simple reason that having a child of your own confronts you with concrete decisions as opposed to a discussion of possibilities.

This does not make your opinion invalid. It does however change the weight it might hold when it comes to discussing the issues related to raising kids.

Now that I can somewhat (edit) agree with. But to completely dismiss my idea is a bad idea for Mr. Pink's children.

This is what you don't get: there are two sides of the fence. Saying you know stuff because you were a kid in a certain situation gives you the child's point of view on things. That doesn't help when the discussion is asking for the parents view on things. We were all kids and all come from different backgrounds. However, you NOT being a parent limits what you can contribute to this discussion, and IMO you should stay out of it. At the end of the day I am going to do what I think is best for my child. I am sorry you cannot grasp the concept that once you become a parent your perspective changes enomorously, and that is the perspective other parents are looking for. You mentioned psychologists and child specialists, you are not one of those either, so again, why are you always putting your two cents into this thread?

kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject:

Mr. Pink wrote:

I wonder why parents want the perspective of other parents. They have something in common, but you haven't demonstrated why they are more correct. The way I look at it, we are all observers of the world your children have to live in, and we are all worth listening to, more or less.

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject:

Mr. Pink wrote:

laogaiguk wrote:

Homer wrote:

Now that I can somewhat (edit) agree with. But to completely dismiss my idea is a bad idea for Mr. Pink's children.

That is a very closed minded view. I guess this debate is useless, and we'll have to agree to disagree. While I do have a lot of time on my hands, I don't like to waste it.

EDIT,
but with this reasoning, you can't debate the Holocaust as you weren't in it, sexual abuse if you weren't a victim of it, or even this topic about girls if you only have boys (as while they are both kids, raising sons and daughters are very different).

Last edited by laogaiguk on Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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