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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
I wonder why parents want the perspective of other parents. They have something in common, but you haven't demonstrated why they are more correct. The way I look at it, we are all observers of the world your children have to live in, and we are all worth listening to, more or less. |
Kermo made a good point. Why wouldn't you want a view of your situation that you are incapable of making as a parent (as you are one, and the view I am talking about is an unbiased one from a non-parent)?
Plus, unfortunately, on this board, most of the parent views you will get would be from people who have settled here and created roots. The parents that went home most likely got another job and forgot about this forum. I am pretty sure some of the parents on here are just trying to justify their decision. I still have not seen (other than bullying statistics, which if you look for Korean ones are just as plentiful, but worse) any real facts showing Korea is better. |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's leave this topic. I just want to say this....if Korea is not working out for the education, then don't ignore the problems. |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I am sorry you cannot grasp the concept that once you become a parent your perspective changes enomorously, and that is the perspective other parents are looking for. |
I am not sure what you mean here. None of my opinions about child raising or child education have changed since I became a parent. Since this is what we are talking about and I have the same opinions I before and after I am not sure why my 'after' opinions should/would have any more weight than my 'before' opinions.
laogaiguk...remember that their are some parents here (well at least one) who although will be here for a long time (for family or other reasons) still believe that overall their child would be better off in Canada than in Korea.
And no one here has even come close to showing that the Korean education system is in any way better or as good as the Canadian one. I honestly don't think it is possible. I don't think anyone here could prove, at least to me, that teacher centred teaching is better than learner centred teaching.
Teachers/school systems in the West are constantly trying to find ways to help their students...all of their students. Not all of the new ways work but they are put into place to often make sure that every student is getting a chance. It is common in education systems where only the best are considered worthy to let the less the perfect students fall by the wayside.
I have more to say but little mouths are hungry of pancakes...and we don't have any milk...so maybe later.. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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15 pages in just 10 days on your kid's education.
When did the EFL community in Korea get so old? And so Canadian?
~ EDIT ~
And so feisty?
(I've just read a few random pages.  )
Last edited by JongnoGuru on Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Jzer: Can anyone here even speak Korean well enough to assertain what goes on in public schools in Korea? Until then I think most of our comments including my own are purely theoretical.
I can speak Korean well enough to understand what is beign said and what goes on. This till will not unearth bullies...because they don't talk about it much now do they? |
But if you can't speak Korean at all or just a little, you will never be able to tell. If you don't speak Korean and work in a public school the children could be bulling each other right in front of your face. I mean the verbal type as opposed to the physical type that anyone can see. The children may be making threats right in front of a teacher that does not speak Korean. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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That is a very closed minded view. I guess this debate is useless, and we'll have to agree to disagree. While I do have a lot of time on my hands, I don't like to waste it.
EDIT,
but with this reasoning, you can't debate the Holocaust as you weren't in it, sexual abuse if you weren't a victim of it, or even this topic about girls if you only have boys (as while they are both kids, raising sons and daughters are very different). |
It would also mean that if you live in the country side that your arguments are not valid for someone living in Seoul. Or someone discussing rearing their children in Cheonon when you live in Seoul.
Mr. Pink wrote:
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| This is what you don't get: there are two sides of the fence. Saying you know stuff because you were a kid in a certain situation gives you the child's point of view on things. That doesn't help when the discussion is asking for the parents view on things. We were all kids and all come from different backgrounds |
Mr. Pink , what makes you think that the parents view is better. Maybe some parents views are skewed by their own wants and desires for their children. I don't know what country you are from but can you remember the kid back home whose dad forced him to play baseball or soccer when he was not really into it? Was this parents viewpoint and actions superior to a non-parent? |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| ...Maybe some parents views are skewed by their own wants and desires for their children. I don't know what country you are from but can you remember the kid back home whose dad forced him to play baseball or soccer when he was not really into it? Was this parents viewpoint and actions superior to a non-parent? |
i'm sick of seeing this weak argument. why is it weak? because it is based on the lowest common denominator.
that's one of the things that i don't like about Canadians and other westerners, how we tend to assume the worst in each other. that "earning respect" thing. where Korean's show respect based on age, ours is merit based, fair enough. what bothers me is the starting point being dirt low. this is a forum of educators peppered with idiots for sure but we shouldn't let the lowest common denominator rule how we relate to each other.
the argument is weak because it ignores that we are well educated, self aware, open minded individuals having a discussion.
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm sick of seeing this weak argument. why is it weak? because it is based on the lowest common denominator. |
This argument is not weak. I am not assuming the lowest common denominator. I am seeking reality. All of our views are skewed and sometimes someone outside of the situation can give us some insight that we can not see ourselves if we are willing to listen. (remember Columbus) If you want to believe you are so smart and educated you should read the book "Fooled by Randomness". And don't forget that at one time the educated people of the world thought the world was flat and not round. For all we know we may not be so intelligent but educated well in accordance to the dogmas of our day.
I am sure that most people here do give thought to things. If not they would not spend so much of their time on this discussion board. Some people say that people come here because their lives are boring but I think that some people just like to debate and discuss issues. |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are c@cksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
-- Bertrand Russell
| JZer wrote: |
| If you want to believe you are so smart and educated.... |
first, i never said "smart". a monkey or my pet cat is smart. i said, "educated, self aware, open minded" -meaning intellegent. my point was that i'd like to think that of us all.
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Ody wrote: |
"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are c@cksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
-- Bertrand Russell
| JZer wrote: |
| If you want to believe you are so smart and educated.... |
first, i never said "smart". a monkey or my pet cat is smart. i said, "educated, self aware, open minded" -meaning intellegent. my point was that i'd like to think that of us all.
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Just like I don't like peopel telling me my opinion isn't valid, I agree that you also shouldn't be told your opinion isn't valid. Everyone's opinion is valid, whether useful or not depends. But to be honest, while background helps to form an opinion, they are not mutually inclusive of eachother.
Someone who has never driven before might correctly tell a driver to slow down in a snow storm (the driver says he is used to it and no problem). And an experienced driver might not listen to somone who has never driven before saying to speed up if in a snow storm (as they have experience driving in it). So both inexperienced and experienced opinions are valid, and should be heard. Discount either based upon what they say and how they base and prove it. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ody wrote: |
"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are c@cksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
-- Bertrand Russell |
Russell Schmussell! Sounds like he was paraphrasing Yeats:
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The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. |
http://www.well.com/user/eob/poetry/The_Second_Coming.html |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Russell Schmussell! |
are you serious?
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
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nice poem, by the way.
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The Second Coming -- W. B. Yeats
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ody wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| Russell Schmussell! |
are you serious?
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if anyone's interested: positive atheism 
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are c@cksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
-- Bertrand Russell |
Sounds like the book I am reading "Fooled by Randomness". Nassim Nicholas tells how the people who make the most money in the stock market are the fools that think their methods are infallible. Eventually these people get knocked out of the business when some random or non-random event happens. They are not prepared to deal with the possibility that their theories don't always work. As they earn more money, the more invincible the believe they are. They don't believe in using stop limits. In the book Nassim talks about another trader Niro that does not want to be knocked out. This guy loves that he only has to work a few hours a day and can spend the rest of the day writing and reading. Niro never makes big money but limits his losses. Niro also had a Phd in Philosophy. |
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