Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Qinella]

This is something that's bothered my throughout the duration of my first teaching bid here in Korea. My students will always use formal speech with the Korean teachers, but will simultaneously turn to me and speak as though I'm their family or close friend. Even though I can't always understand what they say, I do understand which formality tense they're using, and it makes me uneasy if they use the intimate tense.

For example, one of our students lost her notebook. We were in the teachers room talking about it and she said to one of the Korean teachers, "��å �����." So I asked her if she looked for it, and she said, "�� ã�Ҿ�." I repeated her sentence to her two times, emphasizing the �� and then she repeated the sentence to me properly. When that happened, my fellow K teachers just chuckled. They did not correct the girl and tell her to speak to me respectfully.

Then, today, one of the students used �ݸ� talking to a K teacher. She corrected him and told him not to speak like that to teachers. I thought... okay, why doesn't she say that to the students who speak like that to me? Am I not a teacher?

This type of thing happens always. I usually try not to make too big a deal of it, but it irks me to no end. Sometimes when my students speak to me like that, I ask them if they speak to their Korean teachers that way, and they just laugh, because there's no way they'd even consider doing such a thing. But with me.. yeah, it's okay!

One time, a student was explaining to another student that I don't understand what they're saying so it's okay to use �ݸ� and I interrupted and said that yes, I do understand, and no, it's not okay. They just laughed like it was a joke.

These days, I've made a very big deal of it when it happens. I will write on the board �� and �Դϴ� and tell them they have two choices. I will punish the entire class if one student speaks to me in the intimate tense. Maybe I'm turning into an ajeossi...

This kind of thing pisses me off to no end. But, is it racism, or is it simply that I'm not part of the Confucian social structure and therefore the easier form of speech is acceptable? Should I view their intimat espeech as a sign of disrespect or just go with it?

What's your experience with this?

Q.

[denverdeath]

Maybe they consider you to be a friend? I think that's better than having them flinch when you walk in the room. Why the hey are you using so much Korean in an English class anyway?

When I speak Korean, I use the yoh version even when I'm speaking with younger people...maybe the books we're studying from are part of the problem? Maybe you should show a couple of the books to your students?

I really wouldn't worry about it too much. Yes, it's a bit rude and disrespectful, but there are some things we have to deal with while here. There was almost a whole year when I was trying to make the people of Dae-goo walk straight when they walked across a crosswalk...to no avail.

[Hater Depot]

I didn't allow it, but even so many of the kids didn't seem to think it was a big deal. They never did it in front of the K-teachers though.

[Big Mac]

I would be happy if they used the more intimate form with me because it would mean that they see me as more of a friend than someone they have to bow to all the time.

Really, in English we don't differentiate between polite and non-polite the way they do in Korean. So why do we care what form they use? Maybe their use of the intimate form is based on an understanding that in Western culture we don't have the same kind of hierarchical expectations for behaviour that Koreans do.

In my classes they weren't allowed to speak Korean though and if they did I quickly shut them down.

[Eunoia]

I agree with DD - why are you letting them use Korean in the first place? Ban Korean, your problems are over. Plus their English might improve, who knows....?

[jaderedux]

nope won't have it.

BAN MAL HAJIMA!

I am a teacher not their friend. They have plenty of friends.

They call me Jade Teacher, Miss Jade or Songsengnim.

(sorry did reinstall no hangul fonts yet)

I don't use alot of korean in the class but with 42 plus students sometimes it can't be helped. But they have to view me as a teacher in the class and out.

I never called my teachers by their first names in junior high and neither are they.

I love these kids. Been doing this for 5 years pretty successfully and the one thing I require in the outset is proper manners. You don't call teachers by their first name. We say please and thank you and we don't interrupt people when they are talking.

Kids seem to like my class. My afterschool classes are always full and I have cut off enrollment in my camps because of the number of kids that want to come.

Fun, good manners and respect don't have to be strangers in a well run class room.

Jade

[Yu_Bum_suk]

They can call me by my first name, surname, songsangnim, sir, whatever - most of them have never had a FT before and to them using the first name is natural. My Korean's pathetic but I can tell they're always using the formal with me. I tend to reciprocate (an-juseyoo instead of an-do, for instince, unless someone doesn't listen the first time), as I like the idea of mutual respect, even though some would disagree.

In Quinella's case it's probably a matter of foreigners before him setting the bar very low. The way the KTs expect the students to address you probably says a lot about the institution where you work.

[denverdeath]

Okay, here's what I usu do. On day one, I get a few questions going. I ask them what the typical first bit of info is that's needed before you can officially have 'met' someone. They say, "What's your name?" We go through the usu and have some handshakes and I try to add another question for each different student like, "Yeah? Where're you from?" Maybe I am a Nazi because I don't allow the 'Sun-saeng-nim' or the 'Sam' or the 'Bill Teacher' or the 'Teacher Bill'(the last two sound strange) and I also tell them that they can only meet a person ONCE! I give them my full name of Bill William Bill and give them the terms of first name, middle name, and last name, and given name, Christian name, and surname/family name. Then I get a few students to volunteer their names and teach them how to say it in the typical way in a Western country, which usu leads to a troublesome discussion on how to spell their names in English. I also go through the forms of address...Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms., Professor(Prof.), Dr.(PhD.), etc. I then ask the students to tell me the name of their Korean teacher if there's one present. Most say s/he should be called Mrs./Mr., but I ask them if they're sure about that when the teacher is a female teacher as the Korean female will keep her maiden name after marriage. They usu then agree on Ms. _____, Mrs. _____, or Princess _____. I usu end the class with, "Please call me Bill. If you are really uncomfortable with that, you can call me Mr. Bill or Teacher or Sir, but I prefer Bill." It's great fun for a usu boring topic. Granted, I agree with Jade to some extent that I should probably be insisting on Mr. for the elementary and middle school kids, at least in the formal ed'n setting. High school teachers, university instructors, friends' parents, and others may be a different story though as many of those individuals prefer to be called by their first name, at least in my experience, in NA.

I guess that my main point here...is nothing. It's your call. If you feel that someone is being rude to you(I mean that you can feel the rudeness), call them on it.

[Qinella]

You guys are right that they shouldn't use Korean in class, and mostly when they do so it's a reflexive thing. Like I ask them to open their books and one of them will search for his, give up, then shout at me, "å ����!" But of course there are also some students who will speak 100% Korean to me all the time and absolutely refuse to speak English. If I could find a way to control a child's vocal cords, that would be awesome. My approach these days is simply that if a child doesn't want to learn, they aren't going to learn, and I'm not going to waste the other students' class time trying to make the apathetic kids comply.

A couple people said that the �ݸ� is a sign of friendship, and that may be true, but in a friendship there is no authority. In class, I am the authority. A lot of my students are extremely rude, disobedient, lazy, loudmouthed, apathetic, etc. and they absolutely are not my friends. Sometimes when those students speak to me intimately, I can see the little smile in their eyes because of being able to get away with something naughty. If I were a Korean man, you can bet that wouldn't happen.

I suppose it's all a matter of compliance. If my students were all little angels who studied, did their homework, listened well during class, and otherwise showed respect to me, I wouldn't care. However, it's the opposite case, and a child using intimate speech with an adult gives them the justification for acting any way they'd like, since they are on equal footing now, socially. That's the part that bothers me.

Q.

[denverdeath]

[pest1]

In my school, I have kids that are 4-7 years old. I don't know what they do with the Korean teachers because I speak no Korean at all, but they sure are very casual with me. I didn't mind it at first when they were just joking around with me sometimes. But occationally I get into a very bad situation where they will call me BABO or some other Korean names that are bad and even come and hit me.
I don't know if the Korean teacher or their parents tell the kids they don't need to respect foreign teachers, cuz these are just language monkeys? Or is it the misconception here in Korea that in foreign countries students don't need to respect their teachers?

[Smee]

�������� �ݸ��̾�?

I'd love an English Only Policy, but for many hagwons---like mine---it's an impossible thing to bring into a class. So as someone else recommended, I ignore students who speak to me in banmal or who raise their voice toward me. They learn.

[Njord]

Well, I don't have a "Christian name" since I am not a Christian. I do explain about first names and last names. I don't know why we should be fussy about Korean kids using formal Korean when a) they really should be speaking English and b) we don't have something like this in English.

I tell my students that I really don't like being called "Njord Teacher" or "Teacher Njord" because it is bad English. Elementary students should call me Mr. Lastname, but most of them still use Teacher Njord. Older students may just use my first name since this is more comfortable for me. We are becoming less formal in our language in the US. In high school and university we called many of our teachers by their first names. Students show respect by being quiet and listening when they are supposed to, doing their homework, and trying to speak English. What name or form of Korean they use is unimportant.

[Kenny Kimchee]

OP, do you have them address you by your surname or your given name? If they address you by your given name (e.g. Mr. John, John Teacher) then it's understandable if they use the less polite version with you. OTOH, if you use your surname then it's reasonable for you to expect them to address you properly.

It depends on how the K-teachers address you, too. The kids watch and listen to them, so if the K-teachers aren't using polite Korean with you or addressing you properly then the kids will follow.

I live in Japan and teach in JHS and many of the issues are the same here. I've caught two of my co-teachers calling me "Ken san" in class; I called one of them out on it right in front of the kids and the other one I turned right around and called her "Matsufuji san" - in both cases they cut it out.

In the teacher's room things become a little more fluid; sometimes the teachers will address each other as "sensei" and sometimes it's "san"; they'll also switch between levels of politeness, often within the same conversation. Most of them will call me "sensei" but some of them call me "san"; I usually go with the flow, but repeat offenders will get "san" right back at them.

Sounds like the K-teachers are a little stricter about polite language than the J-teachers; my kids will often use the informal form, even with the principal. There is a double standard with me, though; I've had kids say "Ohayo Ken!" and then give a bow and a full "Ohayo gozaimasu" to the next teacher they greet. I'm partly to blame, though; I joke around with the kids and wrestle with them, so obviously they won't view me the same way as they do their other teachers. I have them address me as Ken Sensei or Ken Teacher, so it's unreasonable for me to expect them to accord me the same amount of respect as they do their other teachers - but that's a decision I make.

[jaderedux]