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Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
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 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| ...miracles... |
If I understand what you're saying about the deity you percieve in our reality, it's that you find the presence undeniable but are puzzled by how such a being's priorities could differ from values that you, as a believer and follower hold dear. I have felt what I suspect is a similar bittersweet puzzlement.
Ultimately I have been forced by life to review the small, but profound, miracles I have seen and recategorize them to a more mundane categorization, maybe "coincidence," or simply "wierd." If there is a god who would rather reward freaky holy rollers with a set of yellow chompers rather than assisting with the endless list of true human suffering and needs, HE, SHE, IT must be a jerk of incomprehensible magnitude. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Jensen wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| ...miracles... |
If I understand what you're saying about the deity you percieve in our reality, it's that you find the presence undeniable but are puzzled by how such a being's priorities could differ from values that you, as a believer and follower hold dear. I have felt what I suspect is a similar bittersweet puzzlement.
Ultimately I have been forced by life to review the small, but profound, miracles I have seen and recategorize them to a more mundane categorization, maybe "coincidence," or simply "wierd." If there is a god who would rather reward freaky holy rollers with a set of yellow chompers rather than assisting with the endless list of true human suffering and needs, HE, SHE, IT must be a jerk of incomprehensible magnitude. |
Why couldn't God do both? Guess what...He does. I am sorry you have the wrong perception of who He is, but that doesn't mean He is who you say He is.
God's signs and wonders actually reveal His soft and generous side. He is a good God and gives gifts to His children. He also gives the gift of free choice and that choice allows people to suffer needlessly. People's poor choices allow suffering...not God. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Kermo, you've made assumptions here, and I'm not going to sit back and accept the charge of arrogance, not in this little exchange anyway.
| kermo wrote: |
No, it's not your belief that is arrogant.
Upon first reading it sounded like you could single-handedly dismantle my belief system. Upon second reading, it sounded more like you were graciously refraining from publicly debunking my beliefs. |
Nope, this is all coming from you. I made no suggestion or assumption that my report would dismantle or debunk your beliefs. Im sure your belief is stronger than that. I meant something more like this: I have no interest in the meetings as such, so if I were to come it would only be see if there were miracles, which I would not expect to see. And I don't see the point in that.
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I'd like to think that if you came, and you were suddenly healed of a birth defect or found yourself speaking an African dialect, then I wouldn't say "Ha! You came along and there was a miracle!" and threaten to publicly out you as a fool for not believing. |
The "Ha, I told you so" was humorous Kermo, ie dramatising a completely hyperthetical situation. If I really did come along, and see no miracles, and choose to report on this board, I would leave out the "I told you so" and simply say "I came and saw no miracles". The whole "threaten to publically out you as a fool" is from you again. I indicated nothing like that. If you want to talk on a public message board about something that is widely disputed by a large number of people, and invite a non believer to come and see for himself, you would have to be prepared for the public scrutiny and dissenting opinion. That is not the same as calling you a fool.
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You're saying you're expecting to go and see nothing supernatural. You've said that anyone who sees something is deluded. I guess it's slightly arrogant to assume that you are the only one capable of correctly judging reality. |
And likewise to you. But I'm not the only one who disbelieves in miracles am I? I'm hardly alone in this. I'm not posing myself as the one true seer of truth here. I'm part of a large group.
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I think the most reasonable position would be to keep an open mind. I would settle for a less overtly callow tone. |
Well I'm not open minded about it. And I want to make it very clear that is not the same as being arrogant. Are you open minded to the possibility that there is no God and your whole religion is a waste of time? No, I didn't think so. Does that make you arrogant? No. |
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