Korean Job Discussion Forums

[fiveeagles]

[Troll_Bait]

[fiveeagles]

[Manner of Speaking]

I want to thank the contributors to this thread who made reasonable and well-thought observations on my original question. I appreciated talking with you about it, because it was a topic that I was genuinely curious about, regardless of religious, genetic or social-based arguments explaining the basis of sexual orientation. My question was about sexual orientation per se, not necessarily homosexuality or bisexuality; heterosexuality is, after all, a sexual orientation as well.

I feel I've gotten to read some reasonable and very valuable observations on the topic, and having said that, I don't see a need for me to add anything further to what has already been said. Thanks again, and see you around the Board.

Cheers and best wishes,

MOS

[Gorgias]

@Troll_Bait,

[Satori]

[Satori]

[Gorgias]

@Satori, yes, good point. First we need to settle the question of methodology. That is the very first question about the cause of sexual-orientation (after "what is sexual orientation?) that we ought to consider.

[Satori]

All I know is, by the time I was 6 I was into chasing the girls, pulling up thier skirts, and looking at thier panties. Things haven't changed too much really when I think about it...

[Xian]

Don't misunderstand me. I am not talking about every example with this. But without doubt, a lot of people who have taken the gay lifestyle were sexually abused, lacking a good male role model or suffered some form of severe rejection. One of the sadder cases I came across was a boy whose mother was so dissapointed that he wasn't a girl that she raised him as a girl. He even won a young female beauty contest aged 10. Everyone thought he was a girl. It hit him at that moment and he run away, only to be taken in by a man who, while looking after him, 'took advantage' of the situation for his own desires. A result was that the boy ended up living a homosexual lifestyle. You can't tell me that life and choice (his and others) didn't bring him to the point of living a gay lifestyle. It was what he knew and it was a place where he found someform of acceptance. Granted it is an extreme case, but life circumsances and the choices that result would account for many gay lifestyles.

When a person has a particular fanasty that does it for them it will affect their physical desires and responses to particular things. A person hooked on alcohol or drugs wasn't born that way but no doubt that they are affected physically (not just externally) by their desire for such things.

No doubt there is a very common pattern of generational alocholism. I think anyone would recognise that fact if they met people who have issues with alcoholism. Consider women who have babies while addicted to drugs, often the baby is affected (by that addiction), but it wouldn't not have been the natural design, so to speak, of the baby.

[Troll_Bait]

A few posts ago, Manner of Speaking thanked us all for our thoughtful contributions, formally putting this thread to rest.

I was prepared to let it go at that point. I had more evidence that I wanted to present, and I was preparing a new post, but thought better of it.

I was hoping that Manner of Speaking's post would be the end of it, because on the whole, I think that this has been a good thread, and I would hate to see it degenerate into a train wreck.

How about one more round of posts by those who are interested, starting with this one?

If not, then are you really determined to get that last little dig in? Is having the final word so important to you? It doesn't mean that you've "won," only that you're the most stubbornly opposed to letting bygones be bygones.

So how about it?

[Gorgias]

I have nothing more to add. Despite the seriousness, some of that was too funny. Good night.

[Manner of Speaking]

Folks, if you want to continue the discussion, by all means...I just wanted to say I don't think I have anything more to add.

Personally I've kind of come to the conclusion that people are apparently able to change their "given" sexual orientation, either temporarily or for a long period of time, regardless of the circumstances that led to the development of their 'original' sexual orientation. Some people seem willing to embrace the concept, while for others the idea is unthinkable.

I guess maybe I should have been more precise in my question. What I meant by my original question was, 'at a given point in a person's life, are people able to choose their sexual orientation, or change their sexual orientation'. I think some people interpreted my question to mean, "do people get to choose the sexual orientation they originally started out with?" So far the apparent answer to the first question seems to be "yes", if you assume that sexual orientation is synonymous with sexual behavior.

One subtext that I've noticed with the discussion is that the whole issue raises some interesting ethical questions. If a woman turns gay in college, for example, is she really choosing to change her sexual orientation, or is she being subject to a kind of subculture that is 'coercing' her into changing it? There are times when that university LUG (lesbian until graduation) subculture can be defined as either an opportunity for exploration and personal growth, or as a kind of almost-cult.

Similarly, how does one approach the issue of a "genetically/biologically" gay male who genuinely seems to want to go "straight"? Do we help him to make some kind of transition and learn to be comfortable with his sexuality, or do we treat him as an individual and somehow help him to become straight? The former is a political stance; the latter poses a dilemma of medical ethics. If some men genuinely feel they are women trapped in a man's body, it's considered medically ethical to help that person with gender reassignment surgery. If some gay men genuinely feel they would be better off straight...religious issues and distractions aside, how do we help them?

The argument can be made (not necessarily one I would agree with) that in order not to impose a double standard, the medical and psychological community should be prepared to help gay individuals who want to be straight (I'm not sure how specifically) in the same way it is prepared to help pre-op transsexuals.

[Summer Wine]

Not 100% sure they get to choose their sexuality, but I am 100% sure they get to choose to act on it in most liberal countries today and that ends up being the same thing at its most basic level.

[sillywilly]

Did anyone see that article in Time a few years ago? I'm probably totally misquoting and misrepresenting it but it was interesting. Apparantly some scientists did something to the brains of certain male rats. They somehow made a particular gland bigger ( or maybe it was smaller) but more similar to that of a female. Anyway, these previously heterosexual rats started assuming the female sexual position with their male counterparts. It talked about there being an actual structural difference to the brain of males and females and homosexuals in our species too.

This kind of made me wonder about my own theory at the time that everyone is somewhere on the spectrum. But then again maybe people have varying sizes of this gland. And then there are the poeple who are really into breaking borders and doing what they consider taboo for taboo's sake or simply because it feels good.... But, as has been noted before, sexuality isn't just about the act of sex. I bet there are plenty of people who sleep with people of their own gender who weren't predisposed biologically and vice-versa.

Final note: Being bisexual does not mean you're in denial or on the fence!