Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Summer Wine]

I understand that it has its good points, but you would think that technology of this level and potential for abuse might have been discussed with the general public first.

Even if you just chose those who finished High School to join in the survey, it might be better than to throw it into the public domain without discussion or acceptance, wouldn't you think??

[fiveeagles]

Why, because you might look like this one day?

[Summer Wine]

Five Eagles. You claim to speak as a Christian, so you more than others on this forum should be aware of what is written in Revelations regarding the numbering of people, both rich and poor, free and slave and unable to buy or sell without possessing a number.

It won't be as obvious as a bar code printed on a face, though the result will be the same. Nazi Germany required a star printed on clothing, a yellow one for Jews, a pink one for gays. Today, you don't need a star and the technology will identify you walking within a certain distance of a receptive machine.

I guess I am just trying to educate those who are unware that a new technology is being adopted that will in the future have an impact on their life whether or not they chose to adopt it. I also wish to discuss how many would choose to adopt this technology if given a choice. Or whether in today's world we are just supposed to accept it like cows accept branding.

[fiveeagles]

Sorry, I was just giving you a hard time.

It's true, but for the most part people will say

1. They don't care,
2. It makes sense, so why not go with the trend,
3. They say this will never do it, but time will show that many people will accept it.

Actually, within a couple of weeks, the first US company went ahead and chipped it's employees. I figure, they did it because of marketing. They were covered by Fox.

However, a chip so to say will give its users many benefits.

Children protection,
Easy access to shopping,
Don't have to worry about being robbed,
Access to instant information,

Within ten years, everyone will be implanted. Doesn't mean it's the mark of the beast, but biochips are here to stay.

[ontheway]

Maybe, someday, the people will wake up.

We can choose


either Individual Liberty or Fascist-Socialist Statism.



There is no middle ground.

[splok]

Everyone has a social security number so they can be uniquely identified. What's the difference between this state issued id number and a chip? Don't kids have to get fingerprinted as well? A chip may hinder your ability to do certain things anonymously, but there are already lots of things that you can't do anonymously. Even when the opportunity for anonymity is available, a great many people willingly give it up for the sake of convenience. I can't really see where id chips infringe on any freedoms, unless the constitution guarantees anonymity somewhere (note that privacy and anonymity are not the same).

[ontheway]

If you live in a free society, the government has no right to track you at all. Remeber that the constitution was not set out to grant rights to individuals. It was set up to limit the scope of the governmet. All rights belong to the individual.

The only place the constitution gives the government the right to track individuals is in the census. Even there, it only gives the government the right to count the number of individuals in the country. Not to gather their names or any other informantion (except pertaining to anamals).

Social Security should have been thrown out as unconsititutional on a number of grounds.

In any case. You choose. There is no middle ground. The middle ground is impossible when it comes to rights.

Either all rights belong to the individual.

or

All rights belong to the state.

How do you know? Answer the question: Who decides?

If you decide, then you are free. If the government decides, you are not.

[splok]

[Summer Wine]

Quote:

It is basically impossible to function in today's society and be anonymous though, so I'm still waiting for someone to explain what id implants would change

Ok, first I will list a number of ways that this technology could impact your life.

Firstly once the chip is implanted, what information would be planted on it and could you access that information easily. Who would hold that information, lets say for a hypothetical situation.

A govt dept makes a mistake and puts on your file that you are a criminal. You're now beaming out 24/7 that you are a criminal to all machines receptive. Police are stopping you unneccesarily. Store security is refusing to open up doors to you. Its all on the computer, so until you get it fixed. You are now living in a prison.

Lets say that you don't need to carry cash, so all you do is run the receptor over your hand and viola, price is paid. Money deducted from your account. (hope they get that fixed properly) Now lets say that the Government deems you a criminal, you cant buy food, you are now in a position of having to steal to survive making you a real one instead of a mistaken one.

You cant take public transport, vehicles locking system wont open for you. Your apartment building won't open for you as the signal says you are a criminal. This signal is constant, so you are unable to stop it until you get the problem fixed.

Your entire life ends up on a chip and a computer and then what happens if you suddenly find that you disagree with the Government. They add information that says you are to be tracked, so every time you go past a receptor it sends a signal and updates your location. You are living under constant obervation, the future possibilities for this technology are almost endless when coupled with a decent computer system. Now days they track goods, later they may be able to track people. The future is fine for those who act like good sheep and never step outside the set paramaters. For those who wish to have freedom of speech and the right of free movement, any disagreement with the status quo could leave you in a world of trouble.

These above are worst case scenario's but they are possibilities if this technology becomes possible. Don't you think that people should have a choice before it becomes too entrenched.

[splok]

So the best example you can come up with is the system accidentally considering you a criminal? If this happens, your best would be to turn yourself in, chip or no chip. Either way, the police will be looking for your and will be checking your home, your bank accounts, your credit cards, and security cameras. The chip might make it a bit easier for them to find you, but why on earth would you think the best solution would be to hide from the police anyway? It's not as if a problem of this sort is going to magically fix itself. Your only recourse would be to live off the grid in the woods somewhere, and if you're ok with doing that, then you have no problems, chip or no chip. Your arguement only illustrates that the only point in being anonymous is to facilitate criminal activity. Lawful society requires accountability.

As far as tracking goes, unless you pay for everything with cash, then you're already leaving an easily trackable trail (Lets not forget using cellphones to locate people as well as the gps's that will soon be installed in all cars and facial recognition software too). This is no different than having to show your id. Luckily, none of this translates into restriction of movement or speech. You can still go where ever you want and say whatever you want. You can be upset about someone being able to find you all you want, but you are not going to be able to stop it. Advances in technology are going to make it nearly impossible to hide in a modern society soon, one way or another.

Governments have always been able to abuse their power if they so choose. If the government wants to unjustly persecute you, it certainly has the ability. Giving them more information about you might make them more effective about that persecution, but I do not believe that it increases their chances of doing so. If it did, we would be living in the most persecuted society that the world has ever known, and I do not believe this to be the case.

[fiveeagles]

[igotthisguitar]

[ontheway]

Yes, Splok, there is no middle ground and that IS why you have no right to shoot me or anyone except in self defense. My right to life is absolute as is the right to life of every individual.

(I will not follow this up with the abortion discussion, it's too long for here.)

The right to life of each individual is absolute.

The right to freedom of speech, religion, thoughts, beliefs, moral convictions, moral decisions, choice of medical care or none, to use cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, visit prostitutes, be a prostitute, ... the right to buy, own, use and sell property free from all taxation and regulation ... the right to earn an income without taxation and to keep or dispose of it without regulation ... all of these actions and ideas are rights that are absolute and do not violate any other person's rights when excercised in a free, voluntary, civil society. They are all absolute.

The only thing you may not do in a free society is violate the rights (to life, liberty, property and happiness) of any individual.

The government of the US routinely violates all of our rights. The government as currently constituted is a massive criminal enterprise. No one should allow them any more power. Their power should be taken away and smashed forever.

Without the income tax and the massive government it supports, they would have no need to track our economic lives. And once the massive evil US government monster is dismantled, there will be few left with grievances enough to worry about terrorism in the US. And even today, I would feel much safer with anonymous ticket sales and no safety checks for airflights, than I do traveling under the scrutiny of an evil facist-socialist monster state.

[fiveeagles]

[endofthewor1d]

ontheway...
what country do you live in/come from, where there is no tax or regulation on what you earn/own/buy, and everyone lives in peace and harmony? do they pay english teachers well over there? i want in.