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Students using banmal with you. Where do you stand?
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denverdeath



Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jade, perhaps I should've been a little clearer in what I meant in previous posts. Qinella was basically referring to some smart-asses in his classes...which most of us have had the pleasure of dealing with at one time or another. If they're calling him "Monkey Man" or "Babo" or whatever, it's probably best if he ignores them...no need to fuel the fire. Also, I have had very low-level middle school students at the last place I was working. I never ignored them or their Korean, per se, I encouraged an English-only environment. A higher-level classmate might do a quick translation like "Repeat", which I would allow because not only would the lower-level student benefit, so would the higher-level student. Regardless, I still believe that less Korean is better.
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Jaderedux!

I didn't use the word "ignore," Qinella did.
I'm sorry you got the two of us confused.

There are other ways of dealing with hangukmalling in the English class besides ignoring.

�� pretend you don't understand

If a student asks for a ����, I sometimes say, "I'm sorry, I don't know what a ���� is."
Nine times out of ten, the same child asks for a pencil in English.

�� ask the remaining class members for the English equivalent

If Kathy has to go to the ȭ���, I ask the remaining class members, "Who can tell Kathy the English word for ȭ���?"

�� ask the child for the English equivalent

The kindergarten student are fond of looking around the room for matching items. They often use the word "�Ȱ���." They all know the word "same," so I insist that they use it.

�� translate the child's utterance to English

I show a picture of a cat and Mark hollers out, "������!"
I say, "Mark, let's call this a cat, because this is English class."

�� reinforce the students who don't hangukmall

Every so often, I pause in the day's lesson and have a round of cheers for each student who hasn't hangukmalled:

One, two, three four,
Who are we for?
Joe! Joe! Joe!

You might be surprised how many previous offenders benefit by this treatment.

�� reinforce the students who speak English

My kindergarten students are fond of saying "why?"
When they do, I get my guitar out and sing:



�� attune yourself to the students' one-word signals

If a student requests "bingo" or "guitar," I say yes or no.
If the answer is no, I explain why.

�� attune yourself to the students' nonverbal signals

If a child nods, shakes his head, or point, I try to understand what the child wants.

�� on rare occasions, mix the two languages

For my kindergarten students, lunchtime is a time when Korean conversation is permitted. Still, I would like to maximize English conversation at all times.

My Korean teaching opponent--I mean assistant--has an impulsive habit of saying, "�߸� ��������!" I would like for the children to at least learn that much in English, so I beat rhythmically on the table and chant:



They think that's funny.

Quote:
I am . . . realistic. . .
I want them to enjoy the fact that they can learn some English and
I don't want them to feel bad because they can't. . .
. . . a good English teacher who was kind and understanding . . .
. . . I want them to feel good about learning some English.
. . . understanding and kind. . .
I want them to be excited. I want to beam with pride every time they do something right. No matter how small the victory I celebrate. . .
I will use whatever it takes to get them enjoy the process of learning. . .
I want them to not to just suffer through my class.


Jaderedux, I am not saying that none of this is true.
On the contrary, I hope that all of it is.
But does this prove that a teacher has be an allow-Korean-ist in order to be "understanding and kind"?
Are you saying that none of this is true of Qinella and me, just because we are anti-allow-Korean-ists?
I would like to think that Qinella and I both qualify on all of these counts.

Quote:
I have built a small English library with books in english and brought back some comic books in English and loads of age appropriate DVD's with English subtitles all which are available for checkout.

I hold classes after school for students that want to improve their English. I teach camps in the summer and winter. Both are usually filled to capacity.


I admit, these are claims which I cannot make for myself.
I would be glad to go on another thread and discuss these ideas with you.
But Qinella, or I, or anyone else, could implement these ideas without necessarily converting to allow-Korean-ism.

Quote:
They were never great at English but when they graduated from middle school they knew some English words and could say basic sentences. That could have never happened if I had the NO KOREAN in the class room rule.


I'm not clear on how you arrived at this conclusion.
Is it because you responded when they asked, "What's this?" in Korean?
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jaderedux



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not clear on how you arrived at this conclusion.
Is it because you responded when they asked, "What's this?" in Korean?


No that isn't the only thing. They could ask to go to the bathroom or leave the room in English and would often go about the room pointing and saying things in English they learned. And I saw them develop over 3 years.

Your song is very nice and middle school boys would pay attention to that for about 2 seconds. Plus it mentions God. I try not to push my beliefs on students.

What is a Koreanist? In your view. Teaching 10 or even 20 students is so much different than teaching within a public school cirriculum. I can't just pick up a musical instrument and go to town. I must be mindful that I cover all the material relevent to their tests and make it make sense and be sure they have fun with it.

Your korean teaching opponent ....hmm? how sad you don't use their talents to your advantage. I have been blessed with teachers who are great co-teachers. I don't view A FELLOW TEACHER as an opponent. Again some arrogance there. They use exact same classroom commands as I do in English so the students get used to them. Guess working with them is easier than working against them.

That aside many of your ideas are quite interesting and novel. Many simply don't apply to my situation. But good for you. Some of your ideas are quite good. But don't translate well to 40 or 42 middle school boys of radically different levels.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Jade
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UncleAlex



Joined: 04 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: An Informality? Reply with quote

According to a conservative Korean friend of mine, it is disrespectful for a
student to address a teacher informally. Perhaps your pupils don't consider
you an actual teacher, that is a licensed teacher in Korea. So they have no
intention of being rude to you. They probably admire you more, though. Admiration
is more valuable than respect. Cool
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Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

denverdeath wrote:
Jade, perhaps I should've been a little clearer in what I meant in previous posts. Qinella was basically referring to some smart-asses in his classes...which most of us have had the pleasure of dealing with at one time or another. If they're calling him "Monkey Man" or "Babo" or whatever, it's probably best if he ignores them...no need to fuel the fire.


Yes, that's right. I didn't mean I would ignore students who use Korean, but rather I'd ignore rude comments. Jade boarded that soap box on irrelevant grounds, but it was enjoyable to read, at least.

Tomato, I liked your post. You always put so much effort into your posts and have a lot of good suggestions. I often find myself in a potentially tumultuous situation and asking, "Hmm.. what would Tomato do?" For real! My behavior correction methods have changed drastically over this past years due in part to your suggestions.

Q.
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Axl Rose



Joined: 16 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i bumped into 2 female students recently in the street. i had a quick interchange with them (in Korean mostly) and when we parted i naturally said "anyong" and they said "anyong" in return. it hardly gives me sleepless nights but it did make me wonder "are they saying anyong as opposed to the correct forms that should be used to an elder/teacher out of disrespect or is it a sign of friendship, the kind they don't enjoy with other teachers?".

i'm not gonna make a big deal out of it and insist that kids say "anyong hi ka/ke se yo" however. best not to think about these things too much because for every k-kid who uses non-polite forms there are 10 who do not in my opinion.

students call me by my first name only. i don't want them to say [name]-teacher because it sounds silly and i don't want to be mr [surname] because my surname would be a mouthful for them. keep it simple. "[name] sonsaingnim" isn't a priority of mine either.
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