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"The vast majority of muslims are moderate"

 
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: "The vast majority of muslims are moderate" Reply with quote

As the cartoon rage intensifies and the bodycount rises in Pakistan and Nigeria, we are constantly reassured, that the 'vast majority of muslims are moderate'. This is often stated without thought, and without evidence, and has been trotted out by many on this forum.

This platitude raises two important questions. First, what constitutes a 'vast majority' and what constitutes a 'moderate muslim'? There seems to be a great deal of confusion surrounding the definition of 'moderate', particularly when discussing Islam and muslims. In the media, the only qualification for being a 'moderate' is to not actually be involved in violence yourself. Hence, such outlets can state, by this vary broad definition, that the embassy attacks and church burnings are representative of only a 'tiny minority'. Of course, such a definition allows people to support Shariah Law and all it entails, while still being defined as 'moderate'. As long as such muslim leaders spout the usual meaningless nonsense about 'inter-faith dialogue', and 'tolerance' they are accepted, by the likes of the Guardian as being 'moderate'.

As this opinion poll in the Telegraph shows, the muslim community is split between those who reject the laws of the West and want Islamic Law imposed, and those who do not, so let's hear no more talk of this mythical 'vast majority' of 'moderate muslims'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&DCMP=EMC-new_19022006

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today.

And those were just the ones honest enough to admit to their Shariah fantasies. This comes on top of another recent poll, which revealed that almost 40% of British Muslims thought British Jews were 'legitimate targets' in the ongoing struggle in Palestine.

Time for the UK to wake up.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your ugly avatar seems to have done a good job convincing them they need it. I assume you've seen his page?

World...crumbling!
(hm?)

People...quarreling!
(I guess)

Poverty...escalating!
(maybe)


We need....
(yes?)


Sharia!
(zuh?)
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Teufelswacht



Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears, at times, the goals of the "extremists" and the "moderates" are the same. The difference between the two groups is only in the methods used. It seems possible to replace the word "extremist" with the word "impatient" and the word "moderate" with "patient" in many cases.
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It appears, at times, the goals of the "extremists" and the "moderates" are the same. The difference between the two groups is only in the methods used. It seems possible to replace the word "extremist" with the word "impatient" and the word "moderate" with "patient" in many cases.


Thats probably not too far from the truth in many cases. More-so probably in countries where they are a minority and their values clash with the current culture and values that are held there. Crying or Very sad
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just goes to show you that calling most muslims moderate is like calling most cancers benign.

Is it any wonder why the population doesn't feel welcome in British society when they want to move in and change it all around. Of course people are resisting. They've every right to.

��S��
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some of those stats were disconcerting but not all of them....:
Quote:
One per cent felt the [london bomb] attacks were "right".
1% is pretty small.

The one thing I REALLY don't understand is that Muslim's feel disengaged from the English bretheren yet want to have Sharia law?
Don't they realize that will end up creating a LARGER gap between the groups?

And then I saw something that put things into a little more context:
Quote:
Half of the 500 people surveyed
500 people...surveyed...
500...
to represent 1.6 million....

sounds reasonable.

Well, at least everyone here is reacting reasonably to the opinions of what.... .0125% of the muslim population of the UK....

I like the title of the article...talk about summing up the thoughts of a WHOLE minority.

And y'all wonder why they start to feel alienated.
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khyber wrote:
1% is pretty small.


1% of 500 is 5 (For the mathematically ignorant, not khyber) 5 people can do a lot, like take over a plane and fly it into one of the tallest and most important buildings in the world.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's true, with five people you can have absolute mayhem:



X-men=

Iceman
Rogue
Mystique
Sabretooth
Wolverine
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then again, you might just get this and then you know you've got nothing to worry about:

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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, at least everyone here is reacting reasonably to the opinions of what.... .0125% of the muslim population of the UK....


It is called an opinion poll you idiot and like all opinion polls it is a sample of the population, and whereas all opinion polls should be taken with a grain of salt, when repeated polls consistently demonstrate the anti-Western extremism of a significant section of the muslim population, they become a little hard to ignore.

Still, continue living in your fantasy land of 'muslim moderates', 'tiny minorities of extremists' and 'peaceful, tolerant Islam'.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is called an opinion poll you idiot and like all opinion polls it is a sample of the population
Holy shit guy...calm down. Just because i called you on basing your opinion on a crappy poll doesnt' mean you have to insult me.

Your original words
Quote:

As this opinion poll in the Telegraph shows, the muslim community is split between those who reject the laws of the West and want Islamic Law imposed, and those who do not, so let's hear no more talk of this mythical 'vast majority' of 'moderate muslims'

your new words
Quote:
and whereas all opinion polls should be taken with a grain of salt
heed your own words tootsie pop.
at LEAST include more studies (that you refer to).
You are referring to this ONE opinion poll as being REPRESENTATIVE of the whole population.
If you were to show me more than one tiny opinion poll, then maybe you' be getting somewhere.

Quote:
1% of 500 is 5 (For the mathematically ignorant, not khyber) 5 people can do a lot, like take over a plane and fly it into one of the tallest and most important buildings in the world.
I'm not saying the numbers aren't radical; i'm not even saying that the teensy tiny numbers of people that would fall into that catagory should be ignored.
All, i'm saying is that this thread has it's basis on a TINY sampling of a population. I'm not even saying it's WRONG...

Please, i'd LOVE to see more graphs that support this theory.... just don't go around telling me WHAT is WHAT based on this tiny study.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any number small enough to be within the statistical margin of error has to be ignored. I'm not sure about other polls but 1% actually means anywhere from 0 to 3 or so usually. 500 is a bit on the small side which is too bad.

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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Any number small enough to be within the statistical margin of error has to be ignored. I'm not sure about other polls but 1% actually means anywhere from 0 to 3 or so usually. 500 is a bit on the small side which is too bad.

How does that "Sample Size" compare to the original population?

[/quote]
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