Korean Job Discussion Forums

sadsac · Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Gwangwang

We all look at salaries and what we are or are not getting. Yes newbies come here and work for less and as with many who have been in country a while, you see through job ads that wages in some cases have decreased rather than increased. Remember though we were once cherries as well. Seriously though folks, if you are renewing crunch the numbers with the boss. If he/she is going to use a recruiter to find a new teacher to replace you there are inherent costs:

Recruiter's fee - 1 - 1.2 million won
Airfares - 1 - 1.5 million won

Looking at a basic cost of say 2 million won to find a replacement teacher, plus the disruption and level of complaint that accompanies a new teacher, makes your staying put a good thing for the hogwan. Factor your pay rise to incorporate that cost and maybe a little more. We do have value, we just fail to realise it. I like what I do, I do it reasonably well and as with many posters I do agree some things should change, but they won't because this is not a society or culture that accepts criticism well or advice well, particularly if it's coming from a foreigner. We have a choice, there are other countries and ESL teaching options out there. I got a nice pay rise when I renewed. Smile

Hollywoodaction · Joined: 02 Jul 2004

bellum99 · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: don't need to know

I agree. Six years ago my salary was 1.6 million an dit was considered high. Every year it increased. It's not so bad.

mack the knife · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: standing right behind you...

I read in the paper today that the average worker in Korea earns 2.4 a month. Assuming that the average worker in Korea works at minimum 50 hours a week, and add in the fact that they receive no housing or housing allowance, and given the fact that they went through the Korean education grinder, I'd say English teachers (first years and otherwise) have it pretty good over here.

On the other hand, Korean salarymen (and teachers) get fat bonuses which may or may not factor into the 2.4 average and thus skew the results.

Hollywoodaction · Joined: 02 Jul 2004

Homer · Guest

Your salary will rise with experience if that is valuable experience with good references...just like anywhere else. Just having time in might earn you a tiny raise but you need credentials and references to be able to negociate a higher raise. Thats called leverage without it you may as well forget negicating a better raise.

So while salaries dohave not gone up all that much in the last couple of years, they had basically doubled since 1997 and the basic hours have gone done (especially saturdays which back then were mandatory teaching days at nearly all kids schools). Other jobs have also opened up in Public schools.

Also, you might want to consider pay vs hours before you throw yourself off the Seoul Tower RR.

If you worked 2.0 for 120 hours per month and now have access to a 2.2 for 80 hours you did in fact receive a substantial raise in your per hour wages....

Finally, those here with solid credentials and valued experience (references) do get interesting raises (I do and so do many of my friends here who have been in Korea over 3 years). You need to negociate and know how to find the better jobs out there (there are many that just don't advertise openly).

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Homer · Guest

Ok RR...I'll play...

Are Korean employers willing to compensate a foreign teacher for experience and qualifications?

With the better jobs out there...yes they are. Howev er, they won't just throw that compensation on your lap just because you are a foreign teacher....

Why not hire someone with less experience and fewer qualifications?

Because with the better schools that is not effective and they would much rather haver an experienced teacher.

Do foreign teachers receive the best or worst housing?

As opposed to who?

Koreans don't get housing because they are from Korea....

Do companies and universities provide housing to Korean employees?

Why would they???

They did not bing them over from abroad now did they?

Do companies and universities provide travel reimbursement to Korean employees?

See above as this is a stupid question.

Do companies and universities provide payment for trips to Korean employees outside Korea?

Why would they?

Unless they are foreign companies that hire Koreans to come over (in that case many companies pay for travel expenses and afford a relocation allowance to these employees).

Hiring less experienced foreign teachers with fewer qualifications saves money. Also, less experienced foreign teachers are easier to control.

This is true of many lower end jobs RR. However, in the last 5 years I have worked at places that hired only experienced teachers and paid well for them...because they wanted experience in the classroom.

Would you mind contacting the Ministry of Education and Human Resources Development and inquire about the salary and benefits for teachers and professors?

This again....RR...the salary of Professors has nothing to do with your salary...not one thing...perhaps one day you will understand that.

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Homer · Guest

memorabilis · Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Location: Seoul, Korea

I'd be interested to know where sessional instructors are getting 6000 - 8000 a course. My part-time profs got like $4000 and many had Ph D.s and had been teaching for YEARS.

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Would you mind finding and posting links to the salary scales and benefits for professors or sessional lecturers at any of the major Korean universities?

For example, here are the links for salaries and benefits from the University of British Columbia (UBC).
Minimum Salary Scales
http://www.facultyassociation.ubc.ca/salaries&benefits/salaries.htm#minscale
Benefits
http://www.facultyassociation.ubc.ca/salaries&benefits/benefits.htm
UBC Human Resources (Minimum Salary)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/faculty_relations/compensation/salaries/minimum.html
UBC Human Resources (Benefits)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/benefits/
UBC Human Resources (Faculty Salary Increases)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/faculty_relations/compensation/salaries/facultyincreases
Minimum Salary Scale for Sessional Lecturers
8 months full-time: $30,492
Full-Time Load: 9 Credits
(i.e. Arts, Science, Writing Centre, Medicine, Health Sciences)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/faculty_relations/compensation/salaries/sessional/2003/scale3.html

jaykimf · Joined: 24 Apr 2004

Hey RR, instead of comparing your salary to Koreans who are tenured professors, shouldn't you compare it to Koreans who have jobs that are equivalent to your adjunct instructor job? Don't you remember posting that Koreans in equivalent jobs had actually had a decrease in pay to something like 22,000 W per hour?
Or how about comparing your salary in Korea with your salary at that college you worked at in your home country? How much did you make there?
Or how about comparing this Konkuk University visiting professor job http://www.aeaweb.org/joe/0512d/html/joe160.html with the adjunct instructors at New York University http://www.nyu.edu/hr/pdf/forms/adjunct.pdf
Konkuk: $55,000 U.S tax free, free housing, 3 month vacation, 6 class hours per week and partial funding of research and publications. PHD in economics required.
NYU : $92 per class hour times 6 hours per week= $552/ week, before taxes, before rent and no paid vacations. NYU has about 2300 adjunct instructors by the way.
Or how about comparing resumes? Here's the resume of a visiting professor at KDI school in Seoul : http://www.kdischool.ac.kr/faculty/resume_eng.asp?f_key=93 How does your resume stack up?
You want to compare Koreans working in Foreign Universities with Foreigners working in Korea? Ok, I'd guess most of the Koreans working overseas are the cream of the crop who'd have no problem getting a job in Korea while many of the foreigners working as adjunct instructors in Korea couldn't get a tenured faculty position anywhere else in the world. (No offense intended to anyone who actually has the qualifications to be a real professor.)
Having a PHD is not a strict requirement for a tenured faculty position and even the top schools in the U.S have some professors without a PHD, but in today's competitive job market a candidate without a PHD will always be passed over unless he or she has truely exceptional credentials.
"The Ph.D. glut has existed ever since the fall of 1969. The number of entry-level full-time professorial positions has remained stagnant. Few new universities have been constructed. Legislatures have resisted additional funding.
This has led to a reduction of the number of tenure-level positions. Universities and community colleges have been able to staff their entry-level positions with inexpensive instructors.
Those few Ph.D.s who receive a full-time position at a university find that they are paid much less than tenured members of the department. They are assigned the lower-division classes, which are large – sometimes 200 to 1,000 students. These mega-classes require lecturing skills that most professors do not possess. Those untenured faculty members who perform well in mega-classes are kept on until the day of reckoning: the decision to grant them tenure, usually eight years after they go on the payroll. They are usually not re-hired unless they have published narrowly focused articles in professional journals. But mega-class professors do not have much time to do the required research.
The assistant professor is now 35 years old or older. He has not made the cut. He is now relegated to the academic underworld: the community colleges. But here there is fierce competition. Community colleges hire part-time instructors at $10 to $15 an hour. These people seek a full-time position at the community college. They need that initial foot in the door: night school courses for worn-out adults who are trying to earn an A.A. degree. Their natural enemies are the newly dismissed assistant professors from universities. ...." http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north427.html
Of course the bottom line reason you didn't get a raise is because you agreed to work withou a raise. Why did you do that?

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

jaykimf,
Thank you for your reply.

Would you mind finding and posting links to the salary scales and benefits for professors or sessional lecturers at any of the major top five Korean universities?

For example, here are the links for salaries and benefits from the University of British Columbia (UBC).
Minimum Salary Scales
http://www.facultyassociation.ubc.ca/salaries&benefits/salaries.htm#minscale
Benefits
http://www.facultyassociation.ubc.ca/salaries&benefits/benefits.htm
UBC Human Resources (Minimum Salary)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/faculty_relations/compensation/salaries/minimum.html
UBC Human Resources (Benefits)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/benefits/
UBC Human Resources (Faculty Salary Increases)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/faculty_relations/compensation/salaries/facultyincreases
Minimum Salary Scale for Sessional Lecturers
8 months full-time: $30,492
Full-Time Load: 9 Credits
(i.e. Arts, Science, Writing Centre, Medicine, Health Sciences)
http://www.hr.ubc.ca/faculty_relations/compensation/salaries/sessional/2003/scale3.html