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Munich: Spielberg's finally made a great political statement
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Hollywoodaction

Joined: 02 Jul 2004

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
If a bunch of Nunavut terrorists were to massacre a dozen or so Canadian athletes tomorrow in Torino, how would you feel?

Uhh, I wouldn't like it very much, that's for sure.

However, if the Canadian government's response was to kill 200 people in Nunavut through aerial bombing, then that's something that I would certainly want the world to be aware of as well.

I think you missed the point. The point is that there are no Nunavit terrorists. There is no movie to be made about how Canada killed 200 Nunavit(ians?) through aerial bombing because the Nunavits never aspired to slaughter 11 Canadian Olympians.

No, but there probably is a movie to be made about how aboriginal people in North America engaged in violent warfare against white imperialists in the early days of colonization.

Quote:

I don't recall Ghandhi's suicide bombing campaigns, nor can I remember when and where Martin Luther King advocated violence to solve the problem of inequality in the American South.

I also don't recall that the US government's response to Black Panther violence was to kill hundreds of people in aerial bombings of black neighbourhoods.

No, I don't have a problem with a movie that fleshes out the horrors Israel has suffered on Palestinians. I have a problem with a movie that portrays terrorists with as much sympathy as Munich does. Whatever the subsequent actions of Israel, those 11 Olympians didn't deserve the empty portrayal Spielberg gave them, just as Israel's over-the-top response does nothing to excuse the actions of terrorists.

Well, in his defence, the Mossad agents did kill an innocent man. Does that make them terrorists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

If a bunch of Nunavut terrorists were to massacre a dozen or so Canadian athletes tomorrow in Torino, how would you feel?

Uhh, I wouldn't like it very much, that's for sure.

However, if the Canadian government's response was to kill 200 people in Nunavut through aerial bombing, then that's something that I would certainly want the world to be aware of as well.

I think you missed the point. The point is that there are no Nunavit terrorists. There is no movie to be made about how Canada killed 200 Nunavit(ians?) through aerial bombing because the Nunavits never aspired to slaughter 11 Canadian Olympians.

I don't recall Ghandhi's suicide bombing campaigns, nor can I remember when and where Martin Luther King advocated violence to solve the problem of inequality in the American South.

I'll admit I haven't seen the movie, and I don't care to (just as I didn't see Fahrenheit 911 or Mel's Passion movie), but I have heard that the 11 Israeli Olympians were hardly characterized nor was the impact on their families fleshed out, but you get extensive character development for the terrorists. And since I haven't seen the movie, I won't go on about how bad it is, because I really don't know. But if what I've been told is true, (and feel free to correct my ignorance) I have no desire to see it.

sundubuman wrote:

Hollywood hates details, loves simplistic plot lines. spielberg buried himself with this film.

Yeah, it seems Spielberg made a huge mistake with this film. And, no, Yu Bum Suk, I was not especially enamored of Saving Private Ryan, although I'll have trouble watching Schindler's List or ET again.

So you haven't seen the film but you just can't help commenting on what Spielberg apparently doesn't show in it?

As a matter of fact the Israeli atheletes are repeatedly shown getting mutalated and butchered in flashbacks. Their families are shown watching the saga unfold on TV as no one really knows what's going on until they're all slaughtered. The collective grief that everyone experiences could not be more vivid. The death of every single athelete, in the Olympic village or on the helicopters, is shown in gory detail.

But go ahead and slam Spielberg - he didn't sing the Zionist tune and in spite of all he's done he must be a self-loathing terrorist sympathiser, right?

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject:

Quote:

As a matter of fact the Israeli atheletes are repeatedly shown getting mutalated and butchered in flashbacks. Their families are shown watching the saga unfold on TV as no one really knows what's going on until they're all slaughtered. The collective grief that everyone experiences could not be more vivid. The death of every single athelete, in the Olympic village or on the helicopters, is shown in gory detail.

YBS:

Thanks, I had forgotten about the scenes with the athletes' families.

gypsyfish

Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

... I'll admit I haven't seen the movie, and I don't care to (just as I didn't see Fahrenheit 911 or Mel's Passion movie), but I have heard that the 11 Israeli Olympians were hardly characterized nor was the impact on their families fleshed out, but you get extensive character development for the terrorists. And since I haven't seen the movie, I won't go on about how bad it is, because I really don't know. But if what I've been told is true, (and feel free to correct my ignorance) I have no desire to see it.

sundubuman wrote:

Hollywood hates details, loves simplistic plot lines. spielberg buried himself with this film.

Apparently it was fine with at least a couple of the athletes widows.

http://www.philly.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/movies/13467773.htm

It fascinates me that people are so quick to judge things they haven't seen. Spielberg probably weeps that you aren't going to see his film.

mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

If a bunch of Nunavut terrorists were to massacre a dozen or so Canadian athletes tomorrow in Torino, how would you feel?

Now that it has been corrected, do you intend to see it?

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject:

mithridates wrote:

Kuros wrote:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

If a bunch of Nunavut terrorists were to massacre a dozen or so Canadian athletes tomorrow in Torino, how would you feel?

Now that it has been corrected, do you intend to see it?

I guess with all the controversy surrounding it, I have to see it now.

gypsyfish wrote:

It fascinates me that people are so quick to judge things they haven't seen. Spielberg probably weeps that you aren't going to see his film

The problem is that when you see a movie you pay money to the person who made it. Having heard things about the movie contrary to what has been subsequently posted here, I felt reluctant to see it, and also a little mystified that people might enjoy it so much. I think I may have to revise my position. It also didn't help that everything I have heard about Fahrenheit 911 and Mel's Passion only confirmed my wisdom in not paying money to see those films.

Yu_Bum_Suk wrote:

I stand corrected. As I said, I had heard a reviewer say something different, so I did not want to pay money to see such a movie. Above I fully disclosed that hadn't seen it and I might not know all the facts.

Quote:

But go ahead and slam Spielberg - he didn't sing the Zionist tune and in spite of all he's done he must be a self-loathing terrorist sympathiser, right?

Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

I guess with all the controversy surrounding it, I have to see it now.

I'd recommend seeing it. I saw it and would see it again.

Last edited by Gopher on Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total

Len8

Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject:

They had a days silemce at the actual olympics in Munich after the Israelies were killed. The Israeles actually lobbioed to have the olympics cancelled, but Avery Bruindage and the other board members voted against it. The Germans were widely blamed for the massacre. They were accused of incompetence, and it was said that they could have done a better job ifn they had wanted too. Part that got me was that every time a Palestinian was killed by the assasins many Israeles were also killed by things such as letter boombs in retaliation

Hater Depot

Joined: 29 Mar 2005

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject:

Gopher wrote:

It subtly challenges (and there was nothing subtle about Moore or Gibson) a couple of Hollywood stereotypes on intelligence operations. For one, professional assassins (apart from some in the PIRA and others in very specific circumstances throughout history) are largely creations of spy fiction.

Perhaps, but this film certainly relies on several established spy fiction tropes. The mysterious organization run by the cultured "Papa", men in suits walking around an open-air market in Paris while discussing assassination, the beautiful woman who works for nobody..

Frankly for all the historical inaccuracy of Munich, I find the least believable aspect to be the idea that they were racked by guilt and tortured by angst by what they were doing.

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