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Carttoons published in Egypt back in October....
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On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:17 am Post subject:

Quote:

khyber wrote:
Quote:

When Canadian hockey fans start decapitating schoolgorls, suicide bombing pizza parlors, hijacking airplanes, invading free countries and attempting to destroy them, then you can make a valid, real comparison.
I thought Muslims were protesting because of 12 cartoons?
I don't think i've read about any bomb attacks, decaptiated school girls, hijacked airplanes, invaded free countries because of the cartoons.

No, but by taking things out of context OTOH allows himself to believe and expects us to believe the absurd notion that Canadian hockey fans are a threat to Western civilization and/or that Muslims are not.

No. I am saying that IF religious people rioting over a cartoon is evidence of a plan to destroy western civilization, then nationalists rioting over an unfair sports suspension should be considered evidence of a plan to destroy English Canadian civilization.

And if the rioting over the cartoon ISN'T evidence of a plan to destroy western civilization, why the hell are we spending so much time talking about it?

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:20 am Post subject:

Kwangjuchicken wrote:

Actually the OP did us a great service. After all, the biggest news topic and the one that is taking up a huge amount of time on CNN are these cartoons. I was getting sick and tired of hearing non stop news about something that I was not able to see. What about the Pakistan earthquake? CNN showed us non stop film footage of the area. They did not just talk about it but not show us the actual event. So, I thank the OP for his post.

Ditto.
I took Kuros' reply to my post to be tongue-in-cheek,
extrapolating my reasoning to a ridiculous extreme for comic effect...
am I wrong about that? Confused

KC you touched on what has been bugging me here- the media 'spin' or coverage. I think they're doing it (exaggerating by focusing on the story beyond the proportion that it reasonably deserves) because the story is at least partially about the media and limitations to media, and partially because anything on extremism in the Middle East sells papers and changes channels, turns up volume knobs, etc..

Last edited by Bulsajo on Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total

Summer Wine

Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:27 am Post subject:

Quote:

A dozen or so Muslims in London holding up signs calling for blasphemers to be killed.

I believe the exact number quoted was 500 or so, a lot more than 12. A friend once told me that 5% of a population are activist on both ends of the scale. If 500 represent 10000 then thats enough to affect the UK, don't you agree.

Maybe, you feel that 10,000 can't affect the UK, then please enlighten me to the number of UK politicians in Great Britain.

Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:37 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

You have a point. But I'm not worried about hockey fans destroying freedom of speech. The latest battle over the Danish cartoons is evidence of what Muslims wish to do to freedom of speech.

Last edited by Leslie Cheswyck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:40 am Post subject:

Assuming the correct number is 500, and assuming that it was only demonstration in England (i.e. Muslims who wanted to demonstrate together on this issue all travelled to London) then 500 represents what percentage of the Muslim popluation of England? I don't know but I suspect that that the percentage is so small as to make it a moot point whether it was 12 or 500... UK pop is around 60, 441, 000 % muslim is 2.7 That means there are approximately 1.6M Muslims in the UK?

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:52 am Post subject:

Summer Wine wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
A dozen or so Muslims in London holding up signs calling for blasphemers to be killed.

I believe the exact number quoted was 500 or so, a lot more than 12.

According to the Times Of London, 500 was the total number of people attending the rally. Do you have an estimate for the number of people holding up the controversial signs?

Quote:

Police refused to act on complaints from passers-by to order the demonstrators to take down banners praising the British-born terror bombers as the ��Fantastic Four��, saying that their job yesterday was to ensure that the protest by 500 Muslims passed off peacefully.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1571445/posts

Last edited by On the other hand on Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total

Summer Wine

Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:53 am Post subject:

Quote:

Assuming the correct number is 500, and assuming that it was only demonstration in England

I apologise if you are replying to me, as I mean't in the crowd of thousands that were supposed to be protesting, only 500 were supposed to be extremist.

I mean't that if the 5% active extremists represent the others than maybe they are a problem. As Extremists may act as future problem makers and as you might not have heard of 500 bombings in the UK then maybe they still remain as a potential future or have you heard of 500 suicide bombings in London or other locations in the UK?

Though the extremists remain the oil in the water none the less.

EDIT: Maybe I misread the numbers supposed to be carrying out protests and the number showing their views are a lot less than I retract the above.

Last edited by Summer Wine on Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:59 am; edited 2 times in total

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:

Summer Wine wrote:

Quote:

Assuming the correct number is 500, and assuming that it was only demonstration in England

I apologise if you are replying to me, as I mean't in the crowd of thousands that were supposed to be protesting, only 500 were supposed to be extremist.

I was replying to you, and OTOH's latest post disputes your estimates of the number of attendees.

I guess I'll just wait and let you guys hammer it out... hopefully somebody has an accurate estimate of the size of the crowd we are talking about?

As far as I can see OTOH has provided a link which supports his statement that there were 500 protesters total.

EDIT: I see this has been resolved through editing of posts, so ignore this post.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:26 am Post subject:

Quote:

Maybe I misread the numbers supposed to be carrying out protests and the number showing their views are a lot less than I retract the above.

You are a gentleman.

And I should probably say right here that, upon further reflection, I really don't have a tracable source for my "dozen or so" estimate for people carrying the offensive signs. Somehow, the number 12 got in my head, but I don't know if I saw it somewhere or if it was just my own guess from looking at the photos.

Interestingly, none of the sources I checked tonight seemed to be keeping track of that either.

JeJuJitsu

Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:14 am Post subject:

Bulsajo wrote:

Quote:

Why does it take a blogger to bring this to our attention? What are all the journalists doing?

You can't rely on the mainstream media. And because this comes from a blog there's always the slight suspicion that it's a hoax too. It sucks.

Yes. And there's another thing that's been bugging me- I've been reading headlines and catching news reports on the 24 hour channels and listening to anchors interview pundits and I get the impression that the entire Muslim world, all 1.2 billion or so of them, are totally aflame with righteous anger and are rioting in the streets.
But is that really the case?
I mean, how many people are actually out in the streets demonstrating?
How many are actually rioting and torching Danish embassies?
I suspect the numbers are far, far less than what we are being led to believe...

Beirut, Tehran, Khandahar... are there huge demonstrations in places like Istanbul, Cairo, Amman, Rabat, Tripoli, Dubai, Muscat?
I think Condi is right in that the whole thing is being manipulated by extremists.
But it seems to me that would also mean that the Western media is not only buying into this manipulation, they are actively fueling it.
So those in the West who seek a confrontation with Islam seem to be on the the same side of this issue as the extremists.
In other words, there are extremists on both sides pushing for confronatation and pushing moderates to either extreme.

You're missing the point--it's not how many were out in the streets acting like baboons--most Islamic countries are cafe societies--anything and everything is discussed and decided upon by men sipping coffee. Rest assured, the absurd: "Denmark the next Satan and the US, British, and Zionist plots in designing these offensive cartoons" is by now a concrete fact to the elders, and therefore everyone, in most every town in Islam.

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:55 am Post subject:

Very shortly after I posted that, it became clear that the issue was more than just driven by media spin and that there is a deep and widespread resentment regarding the cartoons, so ignore that post please.

Kwangjuchicken

Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject:

So. Let me get this straight. The ones who are protesting the cartoon are doing so because they would not do such things as blowing people up. And to prove that, they blow each other up?

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Quote:

Maybe I misread the numbers supposed to be carrying out protests and the number showing their views are a lot less than I retract the above.

12 is a very biblical number.

Bulsajo wrote:

Kwangjuchicken wrote:

Actually the OP did us a great service. After all, the biggest news topic and the one that is taking up a huge amount of time on CNN are these cartoons. I was getting sick and tired of hearing non stop news about something that I was not able to see. What about the Pakistan earthquake? CNN showed us non stop film footage of the area. They did not just talk about it but not show us the actual event. So, I thank the OP for his post.

Ditto.
I took Kuros' reply to my post to be tongue-in-cheek,
extrapolating my reasoning to a ridiculous extreme for comic effect...

Let's hope I'm not seriously morally equating people posting cartoons on a message board to rioters committing acts of violence in the street.

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