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Xerxes
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: Down a certain (rabbit) hole, apparently
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 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mishlert wrote: |
Getting back to the subject at hand.
The World Cup starts in just over 3 months and I can't wait to see all the whining and *beep* that will be going on here because the officials won't be biased to any team, let alone Korea.
I wonder what kind of spin the K-networks will put on it |
Whoah, I'm no apologist or nothing but stating that FIFA officials were biased in favor of the Korean team in 2002 is a big accusation, and something that international news would have backed you up with so many keen officiating eyes trained on the game, professional or no.
And, from the same logic, in this year's cup, the officiating will favor the German team? If FIFA officials are so corrupt to favor willy-nilly, we might as well not have the World Cup. (I do acknowledge that there are a lot of stupid words passed here and there by the FIFA heads, but professional referees?) |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| Italy tried to bully Korea off the ball in that game, and when the plucky, smaller Koreans stood thier ground the snotty Italians got nasty, they were luck not to be penalised more for crude tackles. Korea won that game fair and square, and I rejoice that those arrogant sissy boys took it so hard. |
jhaahahaaha I think you have called on me bro.. hahahha
first! how do you think if the ALL BLACKS came to korea and played them in a game of RUBGY? now we both know the allblacks would destroy them!
not only in skills and game play! but also in muscle! because the ALLblacks only play the top teams of the world! England, ireland, OZ, SA etc.. so the game play is more aggressive! becuase thats the way they play!
im sure when norway and canada plays rugby its not as rough as when the ALLBLACKS play Australia!! why? becuase their two treams always play like this becuase the competition demands it..
now in the case of ITALY VS korea! its the same thing..
Italy played the game as they always do! becuase they are use to playing with heavy weights! so they play that way! you just need to watch SERIEA games to know the level is different to the K LEAGUE!
and that goes for the FA AND SPANISH LEAGUE TOO! those leagues have the best players in the world playing in them and they play to WIN! its fast aggresive and thats what makes it more entertaining than watching something like the NEW Zealand soccer league or the canada soccer league! could you imagine if CANADA"S first team of hockey came and played the KIWIS in hockey! we would get wasted! smashed into the walls and have them run rings around us! might look like they bullyed us! but in their league it was normal game play!
now if the allblacks went over to canada then it would be a different story we would F*%#@king waste them!! and they might think it wasnt fair!
now Italy played as they do, they play fast, and aggressive and play to win! they werent bullying the Koreans! they were playing on the international standard that they play! it was the first time the koreans were in the big game bro!! so it looked like they were getting bullied on .
it would have looked the same way if it was rubgy or hockey as I said before..
NOW the koreans were no angels!! they kicked maldini in the head!
they elbowed COCO in the face! leaving him in stitches! they were raising their hands calling foul when ever ITAly crossed the balls with skills over their players to the forwards! GATUSSO caught a beautiful cross and ran towards to the goal and once he was clear the REF called him..
taking off TOTTI !! and giving Korea a penalty kick on the start of the game. COME ON! Korea got favors!! they were up againsts the giants of soccer! and the WORLD cup is more political now and itts about money!
korea had money to spend! and they would do what it takes to get into the next round!
fact is! italy should have wasted them! but they didnt! becuase Korea played well, they had the fans behind, first time a big game! going against the giants! and playing from the heart! they got lucky...
of course Korean media will keep playing the edited versions on TV we are in ASIA people! this is still a controled nation! with media. lets not forget korea is still semi communist!
but Italy are not snotty losers! Koreans were snotty boys who couldnt hack it in the real game!! the game is too fast and aggresive for them!
why do you think they never EVER made it past the second round before!?
HEIDINK taught them the game is aggresive and fast! thats why they got to where they did!
ITS NOT ITALY who was aggressive! its the GAME!!
go back and watch some korean games! they learned how to play pretty fast thanks to heidink! |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Buddy, the Italians put in a couple of awful sliding tackles from behind. They were not playing clean! Which is how you have to play in international competition. The Koreans were not LUCKY, Italy did not do enough to win the game! I did not see any dodgy calls or favouritism in that game. Italy was outplayed on the day. And some people were dissapointed cause they EXCECTED things to go as they always have. But things CHANGE in international sport. New playas rise up, and there will always be opposition from the old guard. But past sucess does not give you ANYTHING! in sport. It`s all about what you DO on the DAY. And Korea came THROUGH!
They BURIED those COCKROACHES!!!
YOU WANNA WAR! OK!!! WE GO TO WAR!!!!!!!!
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mishlert
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: On the 3rd rock from the sun
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
Buddy, the Italians put in a couple of awful sliding tackles from behind. They were not playing clean! Which is how you have to play in international competition. The Koreans were not LUCKY, Italy did not do enough to win the game! I did not see any dodgy calls or favouritism in that game. Italy was outplayed on the day. And some people were dissapointed cause they EXCECTED things to go as they always have. But things CHANGE in international sport. New playas rise up, and there will always be opposition from the old guard. But past sucess does not give you ANYTHING! in sport. It`s all about what you DO on the DAY. And Korea came THROUGH!
They BURIED those *beep*!!! |
you are right about one thing! Italy didnt do enough to win the game!
but this is not what we are talking about here
we are talking about the koreans got favors!
and they did!!
things change in international sport! ??? yeah like even a blindman can get lucky !! PAST success gives you experience and the way you play!
sure the ball is round and miracles happen! just as it did for korea!
they did not bury ITALY! their first goal was a goal from a mistaken defence by panucci he fumbled the ball right to the park ji songs feet bascially we call that he F*%$K UP!! and gave you a gift!
the golden goal was a fluke header from AHN JUNG HWAN which he couldnt even believe he score it!!
sliding tackles??? this is soccer!! its all about sliding tackles!
problem is koreans are not trained enough to know how to slide tackle!
the ITALIAN midfielders are the top mid fielders in the SERIE A! they do sliding tackles and play fast every sunday!! they are great players bro!
sliding tackle hitting the ball first is a LEGAL tackle! the koreans dont know how to slide tackle so they dont risk it the koreans are fast thats all they have , speed! so they used that to their advantage!
not to mention to trained together for over 2 years everyday!!!!
the italians trained together for 1 month!!
the korean team was ready!!as a team!! but it took them years to prepare for it and they just slid by... their goals were nothing great!
the game was a big game! probably the best game the KOREANS have ever played! they got lucky on the day bro!
ITALY messed up!
still doesnt change the fact they got special favors!
as they did against SPAIN!!
kora VS Italy was a midfielders game! the ball was pretty much staying in the middle of the field..
IM not saying korea didnt play well! they did play well!
but their were favors towards them!
still ITALY should have beat them anyway! bu they didnt! becuase they choked! still... we will see what happens in 3 months time.,..
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
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| n the west, biases in international sporting events are miniscule, unoticeable. networks would lose their credibility. |
Sorry the eye but have you ever watched the Olympics on NBC?
They show the events on US prime time (i.e. not live) and then focus on US dominated events.....
Is that bad?
No...its catering to your audience.
The point made about the BBC is also a good example.
The CBC does the same as they focus on Canadian dominated events...Curling anyone?
You try showing a US audience a sporting event where the focus is not on the US participants and see what happens to the ratings and how the complaints will flood in. |
Homer, your example is a miss.
simply showing ONE event instead of another based on audience preference is not what we are talking about.
of course one would expect that.
it is not the same thing as displaying an obvious bias when editing the broadcast or commenting on it. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
you think MOTD is biased towards english players? |
Yes and I do think they would admit it if someone asked. It is very noticable if you watch the highlights of a match you were at or saw live earlier.
The Irish version of MOTD is also biased towards Irish International Premiership players . |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Hometown decisions are always a part of sport.
Who wouldn't be influenced by Shin Mi Na doing her stuff in the stands?
I think she was neglected as a factor by many people in the win over Italy. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| it is not the same thing as displaying an obvious bias when editing the broadcast or commenting on it. |
Actually it is precisely the same thing...just another version.
If you want a more precise example go and rent the dvd for the Super Series of 1972 between Canada and the USSR. You will see that magically the production team used a certain focus and magically it was on the Canadian team beting the Soviets. The Soviet side gets basic lip service.
Why? Because the DVD (well video tape originally) was produced for a North American audience....
This is pretty basic.
You want something less biases the eye...get a hold of the World Cup 2002 DVD that covers the highlights of the event....it covers that Ita-ROK game from both angles because it is a doc about the tournament....
Pretty simple stuff really. |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Actually it is precisely the same thing...just another version. |
How can it be that choosing to show one sport over another sport on any given day be THE SAME as actually editing a single game to exagerate one country's efforts??
| Quote: |
| If you want a more precise example go and rent the dvd for the Super Series of 1972 between Canada and the USSR. You will see that magically the production team used a certain focus and magically it was on the Canadian team beting the Soviets. The Soviet side gets basic lip service. |
Sure, but did they try to portray one side playing cleaner than the other?
You keep confusing the idea of FOCUS and BIAS. The events of the Korea/Italy game were edited beyond the actual facts of the game.
How can you say that is the same thing as focus?
Korean fouls were omitted in the presentation and Italian fouls were accentuated. Any uncalled Italian fouls were given more importance than those on the Korean side.
In the examples you gave, the home side did not try to change the events of th game.
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| Pretty simple stuff really. |
that part, i agree with. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Sure, but did they try to portray one side playing cleaner than the other? |
 Of course they did!
Canada were the good guys being intimidated and beaten up by the evil Soviets. When Esposito basically broke the leg of a Soviet player in response he was hailed as a gritty player defending his country (the documentary shows this side over and over and over).
This was bias in its purest form. Sports are about bias because they are based on fan support.
Korean fouls were omitted in the presentation and Italian fouls were accentuated. Any uncalled Italian fouls were given more importance than those on the Korean side.
In the examples you gave, the home side did not try to change the events of th game.
Read what I said above about the '72 series.....it is the exact same of bias and selective showing.
They produced the Ita-ROK show for a Korean audience of fans of the national team. This is not some objective scientific show, it is a sporting event!
Shows are produced about certain events or teams for a target audience and geared towards what they want to see. Hence, a locally produced show will by nature have a bias on the local team. This is not hard to figure out and Korea is far from alone in doing this..... |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
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ok, i guess your recollection of that summit series is better than mine.
i don't recall any blatant distortion of fact. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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The eye....I am not talking about the series itself...I am talking about the documentary produced in Canada to cover it (my dad a hockey maniac sent me the DVD here... ).
I am talking about the distortion between the event itself and what is shown on the documentary: a very clear, pro-canada, bias.
This is just used as an example of what sports documentaries produced for a local audience are: biased shows made to cater to the preferences of their target audiences. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I was at the game and Italy flat out blew it. they got ahead 1-0 AND DID NOTHING after that, they only counterattacked with 1-2 players otherwise they just sat there thinking they were OK. Korea just kept coming and they were running as hard in the 90th minute as in the 1st minute.
They also had a couple of open goals after Korea scored that they blew.
The officating was pretty even for the game both sides were chippy and there was a ton of diving out there. Moreno the referee was fine, remember he had done the US-Portugal with no problems. Moreno didn't get banned as a FIFA referee until he did some wierd stuff in his home country The send off was so-so yeah the mandate from FIFA demanded the yellow for the dive and techinically Moreno was right but in that case the best call is a no call.
That nite Korea was the better team, play a 2 match total goals Italy wins easily. Play that match in Korea another 6 times Italy wins 5. Put it up there with the great upsets in sports is all I can say |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Although I'm a many-years fan of Italian Serie A - still the best league in the world IMO - I'm no fan of the national side, like Satori clearly isn't. They irritate me with their tight tops, floppy hair, girlie players like Totti and Inzaghi, and diving/cheating galore.....add to all that the boring, cowardly tactics (which sadly conform to the racist WWII stereotype of Italians) and you've an irritated SPIN. iT's weird - put Cannavaro and Nesta in a Juventus or Milan shirt and I'm their biggest fan! Put them in Azzuri colors and I can't bloody stand them!
But the Italians were hard-done-by with refereeing decisions. I can't remember what they were actually (and no - replays of those incidents would be useful on MBC ESPN's constant re-runs but they never show them). Mind you, as others say, Italy contributed to their own downfall probably more than the referee - sitting back on a 1-0 lead (as usual) against a home side? Ridiculous. Good riddance to 'em. They were rubbish in Euro 2004 too.
The REAL controversy that sticks out in my mind is the Korea v Spain game. Remember that? Spain had 3 - THREE!  - perfectly legit goals disallowed!
Refereeing decisions totally favored the home side in those two games, Spain far more so than Italy because Spain, in normal circumstances, would've won that match and totally deserved to. Italy deserved to lose. |
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