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Discrimination against Korea-Americans (Gyopos)
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J.B. Clamence

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: no

kojangee wrote:

I don't think it's a case of discrimination, rather a case of business nessesity.

Every Hagwon has to have a white face or parents won't send their kids their.

Why?

Who knows! It's just the way it is.

So, it's not "discrimination", it's just vital for their business.

Actually, that is exactly what discrimination is.

If you're running a business in a America, and you refuse to hire a black guy because you say "some of my customers/clients may not come if I have a black guy working here, so it's a 'business necessity' that I have only white people working here," that is pure discrimination. You can call it a 'business necessity' or whatever you want; it's still discrimination.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: no

J.B. Clamence wrote:

kojangee wrote:

If you think discrimination is so wrong, what on earth are you doing working for one of the most discriminating business here?

denverdeath

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: no

J.B. Clamence wrote:

kojangee wrote:

Good points. What about if you're a black/white/red/yellow(for lack of better terms) small-business owner and you require only one full-time employee to fulfill your business needs? You have four applicants who are equally qualified regarding education and experience. One applicant is black, one is white, one is red, and one is yellow. All do equally well in the interview. Who do you hire?

Ilsanman

Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: yes

A really diligent gyopo can earn more than a whitey can here in Korea. That's a fact. It's also easier to make the jump into a company (such as Kyobo) and get a real salary and advancement opportunities. Whiteys can't.

OCOKA Dude

Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:55 am Post subject:

PRagic wrote:

I'll start crying over the discrimination suffered by Kyopos once the F4 visa is recinded and everyone with non-Korean citizenship is granted the same right to work in this country.

This is the most ignorant, bigoted and racist comment I've come across in along time. Why are you so jealous of Gyopos (and btw, F-4 is not a visa -- it is a permanent residency status). Instead of being jealous, why not realize that you yourself probably have the same option as they do of going to the country of your forefathers and aquiring citizenship/permanent residency in the land where they hailed from?

Case in point: The last I heard, any German American who can prove they have a certain percentage of German blood on either side of the family can qualify for German citizenship without ever having lived in Germany or even being able to speak a lick of the language.

Compare that privilege with the plight of the Turkish Germans, many of whom are fourth or fifth generation, being born in German, speak German, yet cannot get German citizenship!

Drop the anti-Gyopo spiel. It's not only racist and bigoted, it makes you sound like a jealous idiot.

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject:

OCOKA Dude wrote:

This is the most ignorant, bigoted and racist comment I've come across in along time. Why are you so jealous of Gyopos (and btw, F-4 is not a visa -- it is a permanent residency status). .

Again, F-4 is by no means permanent residency. The F-5 visa is a permanent residency visa and yes, it still is a visa.

pest2

Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: no

kojangee wrote:

Please consider the definition of the word, "discrimination". It means choosing one thing rather than another on the basis of some difference between the two. It could include not choosing people without college degrees, people who have bad employment records, or people who are criminals.

What we, westerners, usually consider to be bad is discrimination on the basis of race. Why? Because we believe that the color of one's skin has nothing to do with the quality of that person. Because people everywhere should be given an equal opportunity to succeed.

In Korea, a country full of narrow minded, foolish people, the thought is that "English speaking natives I see on TV are white so therefore I must have my son or daughter taught by a white person". Hakwon owners, therefore, are forced to discriminate on the basis of race in order to satisfy parents who comprise thier markets.

In most cultures, the norms, rules, and customs of a culture have to change a considerable amount before the law can. People in Korea just haven't dealt with the integration of different races into thier society yet, so the notion of 'racism' is off the radar for them. When other races have come to Korea in the past, the outcome has usually been bad for Koreans... so it will be very very hard for Korea to cease being a xenophobic, racist place...

taekat

Joined: 03 Feb 2006

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:49 am Post subject:

I don't know much about Koreans but I do have a friend who was born in China and then moved to Canada with his family and he can't teach English in China. But i'm pretty sure that's not the case in Korea. It's alot more complicated then just they don't fit here. Simply put: if come, find some good friends and go out alot.

dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:32 am Post subject:

OCOKA Dude wrote:

Case in point: The last I heard, any German American who can prove they have a certain percentage of German blood on either side of the family can qualify for German citizenship without ever having lived in Germany or even being able to speak a lick of the language.

Compare that privilege with the plight of the Turkish Germans, many of whom are fourth or fifth generation, being born in German, speak German, yet cannot get German citizenship!

False on all accounts. Last you heard must have been many moons ago.

OCOKA Dude

Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject:

dogbert wrote:

False on all accounts. Last you heard must have been many moons ago.

Cite? Didn't think so.

OCOKA Dude

Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject:

jinju wrote:

OCOKA Dude wrote:

This is the most ignorant, bigoted and racist comment I've come across in along time. Why are you so jealous of Gyopos (and btw, F-4 is not a visa -- it is a permanent residency status). .

Again, F-4 is by no means permanent residency. The F-5 visa is a permanent residency visa and yes, it still is a visa.

I'm not going to get into a semantical argument with you b/c F-4s are defacto citizens. F-5s, on the other hand, have not been established yet. There has been much ado and talking about this proposed status -- mostly by the foreign F-2-1 crowd -- however, the Korean gov't has made no decisions on it yet. It exists only in the mind of hopeful foreigners.

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

OCOKA Dude wrote:

jinju wrote:

OCOKA Dude wrote:

This is the most ignorant, bigoted and racist comment I've come across in along time. Why are you so jealous of Gyopos (and btw, F-4 is not a visa -- it is a permanent residency status). .

Again, F-4 is by no means permanent residency. The F-5 visa is a permanent residency visa and yes, it still is a visa.

F4s are not citizens. Infact F5s have more rights than F4s. The F5 is the ONLY permanent residency visa out there. The F4 has to be renewed every number of years, the F5 is a permanent visa that does not. I have no idea what you mean by not being established. I have the F5, meaning that unlike you, I am a permanent resident. Yeah, on my ARC it says F5. Looks like someone needs to stop talking out of their ignorant ass and study up. You are a 2nd class Korean. Citizen? HAHAHAHA

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

OCOKA Dude it seems like you do not know what you are talking about. PLease provide links to anywhere that backs up what you are saying. From my visa experience, Jinju is right on the mark.

jinju

Joined: 22 Jan 2006

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

OCOKA Dude it seems like you do not know what you are talking about. PLease provide links to anywhere that backs up what you are saying. From my visa experience, Jinju is right on the mark.

Its not surprising that a kyopo has that know-it-all attitude. The F4 is a great visa, but it is by no means a permanent residency visa. Why? Because it HAS TO BE RENEWED every 2 years. That may be semantics but it still holds that it is not permanent. There is only one permanent visa out there, and that is the F5. Sorry OCOKA Dude, but you need to first get informed on visa issues to be taken seriously. Ive seen you peddle the same crap over and over in this forum.

dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject:

OCOKA Dude wrote:

dogbert wrote:

False on all accounts. Last you heard must have been many moons ago.

Cite? Didn't think so.

Since you were so obviously wrong, I didn't think it would be necessary to drive the point home, but I'm happy to do it.

OCOKA Dude wrote:

Compare that privilege with the plight of the Turkish Germans, many of whom are fourth or fifth generation, being born in German, speak German, yet cannot get German citizenship!

"Provided that certain other prerequisites are fulfilled, foreigners in general have the right to become naturalized after only 8 years of habitual residence in the Federal Republic of Germany, instead of 15 as was the case before. For naturalization, it is necessary to prove adequate knowledge of Germany. A clean record and commitment to the tenets of the Basic Law (Constitution) are further criteria. The person to be naturalized must also be in a position to pay for his/her own maintenance."

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/willkommen/staatsangehoerigkeitsrecht/index_html

"Children who are born in Germany to foreign nationals will receive German citizenship when one of the respective child's parents has resided lawfully in Germany for at least eight years and holds entitlement to residence or has had an unlimited residence permit for at least three years. Under the new law, such children acquire German citizenship at birth."

http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/reform_of_germany_s_citizenshi.html

"Absolute legal entitlement to naturalization under the Foreigners' Act

Before the new legislation went into force, foreign nationals were granted entitlement to naturalization only after 15 years of residence in Germany. Now, a foreign national is entitled to naturalization after lawfully residing in Germany for eight years when he meets the following requirements:

He professes loyalty to the free democratic basic order laid down by Germany's constitution and, in particular, has not been involved in any activities that are hostile to the constitution;

The respective individual is be in possession of a residence permit or the right of unlimited residence;

He is able to support himself without the help of welfare benefits or unemployment assistance (as in the past, this requirement does not have to be checked in the case of foreigners who are under 23 years of age; the receipt of unemployment assistance or welfare benefits does not have a detrimental effect on the individual's application when the respective individual is not responsible for the situation);

The applicant has renounced or lost his previous citizenship (exceptions are allowed, particularly in those cases when it is not possible to renounce one's previous citizenship or renouncement is possible only under difficult terms).

The individual does not have a criminal record (exceptions are possible, particularly in the case of minor offenses);
He has an adequate command of the German language."

Gee, I don't see anything there prohibiting 5th-generation German-speaking Turks from becoming German citizens.

http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/reform_of_germany_s_citizenshi.html

Proven wrong. Next.

OCOKA Dude wrote:

"The most important provisions for Germans living abroad are:

Children born abroad whose German parents or German mother or father were born abroad after 31 December 1999 (entry into force of the reform of the law on nationality), will in principle no longer acquire German nationality."

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/willkommen/staatsangehoerigkeitsrecht/index_html

"There are three ways to become a citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany: by birth, by naturalization and, for ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe and the Soviet successor states, by claim under the "Right of Return."

Right of Return does not apply to ethnic Germans in America

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/citizenship.html

"The majority of those who are granted German citizenship each year are ethnic German "resettlers" (Aussiedler), the descendants of German farmers and craftspeople who settled in Russia and Romania and other parts of Eastern Europe in the 18th century.

The ethnic Germans' "right of return" rests on Article 116 of the Basic Law, the Federal Republic's constitution. Article 116 also extends the right to German citizenship to those deprived of it on political, racial or religious grounds between 1933 and 1945. "

What does this have to do with German-Americans who cannot speak German?

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/citizenship.html

You won't be able to decipher this, but this is the part of the German Constitution that states who are Germans and who are not:

"Artikel 116
[Begriff "Deutscher"; Wiedereinbuergerung von Verfolgten]
(1) Deutscher im Sinne dieses Grundgesetzes ist vorbehaltlich anderweitiger gesetzlicher Regelung, wer die deutsche Staatsangehoerigkeit besitzt oder als Fluechtling oder Vertriebener deutscher Volkszugehoerigkeit oder als dessen Ehegatte oder Abkoemmling in dem Gebiete des Deutschen Reiches nach dem Stande vom 31.Dezember 1937 Aufnahme gefunden hat.
(2) Fruehere deutsche Staatsangehoerige, denen zwischen dem 30.Januar 1933 und dem 08.Mai 1945 die Staatsangehoerigkeit aus politischen, rassischen oder religioesen Gruenden entzogen worden ist, und ihre Abkoemmlinge sind auf Antrag wieder einzubuergern. Sie gelten als nicht ausgebuergert, sofern sie nach dem 08.Mai 1945 ihren Wohnsitz in Deutschland genommen haben und nicht einen entgegengesetzten Willen zum Ausdruck gebracht haben."

http://www.datenschutz-berlin.de/recht/de/gg/gg3_de.htm#art116

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