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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
Is what you have written incompatible with Bart Ehrman's research?
I.E. are you saying he is full of *beep* ?
Or can these two sets of facts coexist? |
Let's not forget the many Jewish and Muslim accounts that dispute that Jesus was the Messiah, or that he died on the cross. |
There are Muslim opinions, but not accounts, because there was no such thing until 600 years later. |
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Xian
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
If true, then that would be impressive.
However, more important than the number of differences is the nature of the differences.
For example, let's imagine that we have two manuscripts, and they are identical in every way except that one has the parable of Jesus and the prostitute, and the other one does not.
Technically, that's only one difference, but it's one heck of a difference, one large enough to cast a long shadow over both manuscripts.
Also, what do you mean by, "From all the Roman and Christian writings of the first century, not one eyewitness account contradicts the historical record of the Gospels in any capacity"?
If something's not mentioned, then that's not a contradiction.
For example:
Scenario 1
A: I saw Bugaboo the Anointed One pick up a stone throw it up, and whilst in mid-air, it turned into a dove and flew away.
B: I was there that day. The rock just fell down. However, he pointed up into the sky and said, "Do you see the dove? Look! Over there! It's flying away! See?" And all the dummies fell for it.
= contradiction
Scenario 2
A: I saw Bugaboo the Anointed One pick up a stone throw it up, and whilst in mid-air, it turned into a dove and flew away.
B: I never saw or heard of any such thing happening. In fact, I've never heard anyone ever mention this "Bugaboo the Anointed One." I've never seen any writings by or about him either.
= no contradiction
Also, Christian forgeries (of which there are known to be many) certainly wouldn't contradict Christian views, would they? |
Well, my original comment was in regards to the comment that the Bible is full of contradictions. Strictly speaking, even non-Christian scholars could admit that when it comes to original manuscripts, the whole Bible has by far more integrity within the text than any other letter of Antiquity. Compare the New Testament with Homers 'Iliad' (the next best). It doesn't come close.
Can you name any?
If someone read it strictly literally with their 21st century world view, then there appears many contradictions, but really, it isn't that simple.
Consider the Gospels (Matthew,Mark, Luke and John). Some of the stories may appear contradictory, but there were writing to certain people with a certain message they wanted to give to the recipients in their given situations. Eg: Matthew, a Jew, writing to Jews, using plenty of the Old Testament and styles releveant to the Jews. Luke was a Greek, writing to Greeks (likely drawing on resources from Mark and Q, otherwise known as 'Quella'). If you and I encountered a situation with Korean people, based upon our different nationalities and worldviews, we could communicate the experience very differently to the people in your and my home country. Like the topic of whether Seoul is dirty or not. Depends where you are from. For some it might be, for others, its not.
Anyway, back to the core topic I was addressing. As you may know, the narrative writings in the New Testament or not blow by blow accounts of historical events. I do believe in the death and resurrection, the many healings and other events described. But the authors were not intending to deliver a strictly historical account of all the events, but they were giving a theological interpretation behind much of the events that occurred 30 - 35 years before hand. (I would have argued fiercely against this in the past, but not now).
An interesting guy some might like to read is N.T. Wright. Somewhat controversial and not my type of readings, but for those who are interesting in some of the topics raised about interpreting the New Testament.
About changes in the Bible. Many think that the King James Version is the best (and it is good). It was the first main translation, but the manuscripts it is translated from are actually older than that of many used for other modern translations. With many of the comtemporary versions (The Message, Good News Bible, Contemporary English Version and others), they nice reading and great for those who want to find a Bible that is easy to read, but in the attempt to be contemporary, its possible that the message delivered may be misinterpreted. Within a number of the translations, there are a few words that are better interpreted in other ways. A classic being the use of 'possession' (in regards to demonic possession. That is a whole other topic though).
Christian or not, the history of first century Israel, the Roman Empire, Church History and other issues of a few thousand years ago are very intersting to many people. They are also helpful to understanding some issues that come up in threads about religion. I encourage looking into some of these topics for a variety of reasons. |
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