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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Some Korean Teens See You The Foreigner And Say "Hi!" You, |
| Say "Hi" back and try to strike up a conversation |
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8% |
[ 7 ] |
| Say "Hi!" back and / or smile |
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55% |
[ 48 ] |
| Ignore them |
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29% |
[ 26 ] |
| Punish them for bothering you |
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6% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 87 |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice try, but this isn't a new development; you can't seperate these two issues as they have been what has been talked about ad nauseum so far. For some reason certain misguided souls with poor reading skills have focused on certain aspects that help their agenda instead of responding directly to the meat of the issue. |
There is no issue. Actually, there could be one, if you wanted to look for one hard enough, but you ain't got it.
a. Via the use of hi, K-kids assume all non-Asians, especially whites, are English-speakers.
b. Via the use of hi, k-kids assume it��s appropriate to speak to all English-speakers this way, in clear contrast to their own language (not that that��s comparing like with like, since anyong and hi are not the same thing at all. Our Korean books tell us to address kids and close friends with 'anyong', and anyone else with 'anyong ha se yo?'; their English books tell them to use hi/hello to any English speaker – young, old, whatever. This is not wrong information). We��ve been through that. The danger IMO lies with kids thinking anyong = hi and then saying 'anyong' to an elder Caucasian/whatever. That��s not acceptable, because it makes me feel disrespected (even though they're STILL not being disrespectful - this is due to POOR TEACHING!), and since it is the likes of you who believe 'anyong' and 'hi' are the same (a stupid belief) I assume it��s YOU who��s to blame for kids saying anyong to me. A worrying amount of kids say "hi/hello/anyong" (all 3), but that's either because they've been taught that they have equivalence, or they feel they don't have to use this formality to foreigners because they won't notice or give them the stick for it or because they instinctively view you as a liberator they can relax around and consider a friend, or because this level of formality doesn't exist in the English language (as opposed to deliberately not using it) - not because they deliberately wish to ridicule. By your pathetic attitude, I also assume it��s you who��s to blame for all the instances of Korean unfriendliness/xenophobia (not that I get that, oddly enough) because you��re such an unfriendly, miserable sod.
Look at the bold. Don��t just look at it. Think about it. Two different issues. You might think they��re the same thing – Koreans and their xenophobia  – and maybe they are, but I��m not interested in addressing the mere truism that K-kids shouldn��t assume all westerners are English-speakers. That��s beyond dispute. It is a factual state of affairs that not all caucasians are English-speakers and the assumption otherwise is WRONG. Assuming all English-speakers find 'hi' appropriate might be wrong in your opinion but it is not factually incorrect. That��s why I��ve not addressed that issue; it��s not worth addressing, like I��m not gonna dispute the Earth is round and orbits the Sun. What is disputable is whether Koreans saying hihihihihihihi to us is indicative of rudeness, ridicule, racism about US, specifically us��as has been claimed.
Last edited by SPINOZA on Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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they should be educated. You don't do that; you go on about how cute and sweet it is when female middle schoolers pass by and give you the giggle and wave. The kids are taught from a young age appropriate behaviour towards their elders, just as you were; my teaching also included, to use the PC terminology, 'racial sensitivity training', which I think most of us are saying is lacking in the education of most Korean children. That could be tolerated and forgiven in the past, seeing as we are all from largely multicultural societies and Korea was not that, but the future is now and if Korea wants a place in it then this sort of education is necessary.
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That's right Steroids, they'll never be the Hub of Asia whilst kids are walking the streets waving at and saying hi to Canadians. It's just not acceptable is it?
That's precisely what the world needs more of - PC. You want to come to a foreign country and civilize the barbarians with the liberal sewage on the corridors of Sociology and Lesbian Studies departments at North American universities? No thanks. I'm happy to let Korean kids be themselves, behave towards me the way they feel comfortable, because I'll tell you this: I'd much rather teach Korean kids and have to put up with hihihihihi / anyong even than teach the foul mostrosities at North American schools, the little products of your 'civilized' way of life. Even assuming Korean children do have respect solely for Koreans - clearly not true - kids in the West don't have respect for anyone! I encourage kids to be cute and giggly, more cute and giggly. It's nice, pretty behaviour. We need to maximize pretty things and have a right old clamp down on stuff that's uneasy on the eye. Korean girls in their 20s are still insanely giggly and frankly embarrassingly silly. Doesn't bother me. It's sure as hell better than being some North American, oversensitive PC monster who gets offended by hi of all things. Will hi become the h-word, like the n-word and the f-word?
Steroids - you've nothing at all to offer this life other than the unfounded mental dumpster juice you spew forth. You are living in a fantasy left wing bleak totalitarian desert and it chills my blood just to think of you. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
That's precisely what the world needs more of - PC. You want to come to a foreign country and civilize the barbarians with the liberal sewage on the corridors of Sociology and Lesbian Studies departments at North American universities? No thanks. I'm happy to let Korean kids be themselves, behave towards me the way they feel comfortable, because I'll tell you this: I'd much rather teach Korean kids and have to put up with hihihihihi / anyong even than teach the foul mostrosities at North American schools, the little products of your 'civilized' way of life. Even assuming Korean children do have respect solely for Koreans - clearly not true - kids in the West don't have respect for anyone! I encourage kids to be cute and giggly, more cute and giggly. It's nice, pretty behaviour. We need to maximize pretty things and have a right old clamp down on stuff that's uneasy on the eye. Korean girls in their 20s are still insanely giggly and frankly embarrassingly silly. Doesn't bother me. It's sure as hell better than being some North American, oversensitive PC monster who gets offended by hi of all things. Will hi become the h-word, like the n-word and the f-word?
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Damn was that ever well put. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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SPINOZA,
Good post about the PC-invasion!
Interesting take on the whole 'hi' issue (or wait..is it really an 'issue'?). |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| The strangest bedfellows I think I've ever seen on Dave's: Homer and SPINOZA. |
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steroidmaximus
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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I'm feeling the love.
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| and since it is the likes of you who believe 'anyong' and 'hi' are the same (a stupid belief) |
First off, I've been taking a survey of both Koreans and Westerners alike. ALL OF THEM agree that Hi = Anyong. All the adults know that in English an informal greeting is hi. Hence, since you're premise is incorrect, the rest of your argument is as well. Let's not mention anything about the giggling and other assorted gestures that accompany this hi.
Again, reading skills, dud. PC in this case meant my mom taught me to not point and make insensitive comments to people who looked different from me. Don't see how any one could object to teaching this to kids, but since you do, what does this say about your attitude?
Your attitude towards these kids is indeed worth taking a closer look at: essentially, you're buying into an idealized, romanticized stereotype of the other, viewing the K-kids as innocent, closer to an essential human nature, uncorrupted by 'our' bent and less than civilized ways. You're attitude is that the little innocent tykes are so adorable and cute and we shouldn't change them. Just how crazy is that? you begin from an essentially racist, supercilious, and dare I say colonialist position, and then decry what I have to say as being the product of some socio-psychological leftist babble? Man, get off the crack, and read this. I may not want to 'be treated like a monkey'; you look at them as monkeys. Which is worse?
You make some simplistic dualistic argument about how "I prefer them to the evil runts back home!", but this just doesn't cut it and you know better.
In their minds, they see a white person. They think: I can say hi! He talks English! He is American! He has a big *beep*! He makes lots of money! He is a sex crazed maniac! and an array of other stereotypes. While many of them may be true in my case, the fact is they aren't for everybody. And by the way, these are all things (and worse) that kids have said to me during my time teaching here.
You ARE wrong. But thanks for showing me the calibre of some of the other English teachers out there, and some of the crazed, half baked ideas I'm going to have to dispel if I ever have to teach any of your former students. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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for me it depends if they are sincere or not! if so then I will say HI
if they are little jerks and just trying to be stupid then I just ignore them!
or my favorite one is just run up to them and freak out on them jumping around like an Idiot and say HI HI HI HI HI HI HI HI HI HI!
and then walk off like happend . |
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patchy
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| The simplest solution would be to say "Anyong" back. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Your attitude towards these kids is indeed worth taking a closer look at: essentially, you're buying into an idealized, romanticized stereotype of the other, viewing the K-kids as innocent, closer to an essential human nature, uncorrupted by 'our' bent and less than civilized ways. You're attitude is that the little innocent tykes are so adorable and cute and we shouldn't change them. Just how crazy is that? you begin from an essentially racist, supercilious, and dare I say colonialist position, and then decry what I have to say as being the product of some socio-psychological leftist babble? Man, get off the crack, and read this. I may not want to 'be treated like a monkey'; you look at them as monkeys. Which is worse? |
I agree that kids saying hi to foreigners is not outragous but Spinoza does seem a little naive about this subject. I bet he believes that all Korean women are kind and loving too. They are all just interested in him because he is a handsome western man. |
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seoulkitchen
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Location: Hub of Asia, my ass!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: Center of the Universe |
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I read this article and I think it's related to this discussion:
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Center of the Universe Found
AP In breaking news scientists have discovered the center of the universe. It appears to be located in South Korea. Using a device known as the Dav's ESL Forum, scientists were able to pin down this highly elusive phenomenom.
By applying a variety of filters and tests the DEF is determined to be about 99% accurate.
"The actual location is not known exactly, but we have found that it is in the vicinity of Seoul, Korea", said Dr. Im Ah Kook of the COU foundation. "With our highly sophisticated filters we have been able to weed out a lot of false positives. Our real breakthrough came from a filter we call the "Hifreakowave".
One thing the scientists have learned is that the Center of the Universe is highly senstitive and easily spins out of control. It doesn't respond to logic and is prone to violent reactions.
Scientists have found that it is especially offended by the soundwave 'HI'.
"We are thankful that is not located in Japan", responded Dr. Kook.
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ajstew
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: kids |
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| I've read all of the comments, paying most attention to the ongoing argument between Steroidmaximus and Spinoza. I'll agree with Steroidmaximus on this one, but that's not to say that we should just ignore and not respond regularly to kids of various ages who say 'hello' to us. In my opinion it's up to us to be the judge of whether or not it is best to reply. Spinoza though, you seem to live in some dream world though, that is blinding you from accepting that there clearly are korean kids and young adults out there, who clearly try to be offensive. These are the ones that Steroidmaximus, myself, and many others have a problem with. They're the ones who scream from the top of their lungs at you once you have walked past them like it's some big joke, and that's disrespectful.... I'd even go so far as to say that some are attempting to provoke foreigners to do something about it. What's worse, is that such spectacles happen around their own elders and no one does a thing, eventhough the kids would be ridiculed had they behaved in a similar manner around other Koreans. It tells me that many kids are poorly educated about decent manners in this country and are poorly raised, and like Steroid says, that's not an excuse. Before you rip into Steroid anymore Spinoza, try to understand that Steroid isn't simply talking about a couple of girls on the street who say 'hello' and 'giggle', because he'd probably be the first to tell you that that's nothing. There are many more extreme cases. If you can't imagine what these could be like, then you've said your piece and should be done with this discussion. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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While some teens may be trying to goad a response by saying "hi" I think that to conclude that many or most do is a bit of a stretch.
Teens are teens....they behave as..well..teens! Its not like teens the world over are an example of good behaviour and respect for others...weren't we all teens at one point? Try to remember what you were like...honestly now..not by bleaching the whole thing and saying..I was well behaved..I would never have done anything disrectful of others..not me...I was raised "right". 
Also foreigners in Korea are still a very tiny minority so the "hi" thing will happen.
Why over react to this and then try and make it an issue? Use common sense and judgement as an adult would. It is pretty ovbious when a kid is trying to mock you...in those cases just ignore the kid or take him to task in Korean... |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| The strangest bedfellows I think I've ever seen on Dave's: Homer and SPINOZA. |
Not at all, I kind of see Spinoza as Homer's belligerent younger brother. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Cool peppermint...I think of you as the well meaning aunt of the Cafe. 
Lets keep the circle of love going.  |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| The strangest bedfellows I think I've ever seen on Dave's: Homer and SPINOZA. |
Not at all, I kind of see Spinoza as Homer's alcoholic, belligerent younger brother. |
An apt assessment. |
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