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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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You are a Bum and you Suk wrote
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| Another is to get its troops out of SA. |
The US already removed them.
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US pulls out of Saudi Arabia
The United States has said that virtually all its troops, except some training personnel, are to be pulled out of Saudi Arabia.
The decision was confirmed by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld during a joint news conference with Saudi Defence Minister Prince Sultan.
Both men stressed that there were no differences between their countries and their co-operation would continue.
Ever since the 1991 Gulf war, the US has had about 5,000 troops stationed in Saudi Arabia - a figure that rose to 10,000 during the recent conflict in Iraq.
This does not mean we have requested them to move
Prince Sultan, Saudi Defence Minister
The BBC's Middle East analyst Roger Hardy says this is a strategic shift of great political as well as military significance.
Technically US troops there have been part of Operation Southern Watch, which has enforced the no-fly zone over southern Iraq set up after 1991.
But our correspondent says the US troops have become a potent symbol of Washington's role in the region, and many Saudis see them as proof of the country's subservience to America.
Saudi Arabia is home to some of Islam's holiest sites and the deployment of US forces there was seen as a historic betrayal by many Islamists, notably Osama Bin Laden.
It is one of the main reasons given by the Saudi-born dissident - blamed by Washington for the 11 September attacks - to justify violence against the United States and its allies.
But news of the US pull-out does not mean the campaign is over for Bin Laden and his followers, according to the BBC's Arab affairs analyst Magdi Abdelhadi.
Their agenda now goes beyond the boundaries of one country, he says. Their goal is to liberate all Muslim societies from foreign troops and what they see as ungodly secular rulers.
The al-Qaeda leader was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991 because of his anti-government activities.
In other developments:
The US says it will deploy up to 4,000 additional troops to boost security in Baghdad
US forces in the Iraqi town of Falluja open fire on protesters, reportedly killing at least 13
The governor of Basra under Saddam Hussein has surrendered in Baghdad, according to the Iraqi National Congress.
Earlier on Tuesday, the US military confirmed that it was moving its air command centre from Saudi Arabia to the al-Udeid air base in neighbouring Qatar.
US Rear Admiral David Nichols said the Combined Air Operations Centre (CAOC) at the Prince Sultan base in Saudi Arabia would be closed by the end of the summer.
"We already have switched, as of yesterday (Monday)," Admiral Nichols said.
But, he added, the base would remain wired and could be used again if the US and Saudi Arabia decided it was necessary.
The CAOC was set up after the 1991 Gulf war in Iraq and was used to control the coalition air campaign in the latest conflict in Iraq.
Saudi refusal
Mr Rumsfeld - who is touring the Gulf region to thank US troops and regional allies - said the US was grateful for the "co-operation and support" provided by Saudi Arabia.
The Saudi defence minister said that, since US and British patrols over the Iraqi no-fly zones had ended, there was "no need" for the American forces to be there.
"This does not mean we have requested them to move," he said.
"The co-operation between our two countries was going on even before Desert Storm and it will continue even after the end of the war in Iraq."
In the run up to the US-led invasion of Iraq, the Saudis said they would not allow American planes to carry out air strikes from the Prince Sultan base without a UN resolution authorising war.
The Saudi refusal was reported to have created a rift between Riyadh and Washington.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/2984547.stm |
Besides Al Qaida fights to regain the Caliphate. |
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Porter_Goss
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: The Wrong Side of Right
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
Must be those sneaky Korean and Taiwanese lobbies in Washington. |
*Click* Note to self, cancel dinner with the Korean kimchi and Taiwan scooter lobbists.
*Click* |
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Porter_Goss
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: The Wrong Side of Right
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Another is to get its troops out of SA. |
The US already removed them.
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Do you have a link to any newer articles? I couldn't find any. The BBC article you link is from March 2003; while I don't doubt its validity based on age, not everything has turned out how we expected since then. I agree that immediately after the invasion the majority of American troops in the region were redeployed to Iraq (thus removed from Saudi), but I know from 1st hand experience that the United States still maintains a Joint-Training-Command and various military installations in Saudi. That's were I got my RoJex watch. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| Waiting for someone to swing by with a quote from bibleverses.org or godsaysso.net to justify why Israel deserves special treatment. |
Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed."
"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, they shall prosper that love thee." (Psalm 122:6)
thus...through history, nations supporting Israel have prospered. This includes the U.S, the U.K. (which was instrumental in the creation of Israel in 1948). |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Porter_Goss wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Another is to get its troops out of SA. |
The US already removed them.
|
Do you have a link to any newer articles? I couldn't find any. The BBC article you link is from March 2003; while I don't doubt its validity based on age, not everything has turned out how we expected since then. I agree that immediately after the invasion the majority of American troops in the region were redeployed to Iraq (thus removed from Saudi), but I know from 1st hand experience that the United States still maintains a Joint-Training-Command and various military installations in Saudi. That's were I got my RoJex watch. |
Most of U.S. forces withdrawn from Saudi Arabia
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon has withdrawn most of its forces from the strategic Mideast nation of Saudi Arabia, ending a decade-long buildup started after the first war against Iraq's Saddam Hussein.
U.S. F-15 Eagle at Prince Sultan Air Base in al-Kharj, Saudi Arabia where patrols over Iraq orginated.
AFP
With Saddam ousted from office in neighboring Iraq nearly five months ago, U.S. military officials transferred back to the Saudis control of portions of Prince Sultan Air Base and deactivated the 363rd Air Expeditionary Wing that has operated there, the Air Force said in a statement Wednesday.
"The end of (major combat operation in Iraq) and Saddam Hussein's government means the American military mission here is over," Maj. Gen. Robert J. Elder Jr., a commander there, was quoted as saying at Tuesday's withdrawal ceremony.
Saudi government officials asked U.S. service members to deploy to Saudi Arabia during the 1991 Gulf War. But U.S. presence was opposed by some in the kingdom — the site of Islam's holiest sites — and was among reasons cited by Saudi-born Osama bin Laden for his al-Qaeda attacks on America on Sept. 11, 2001.
Until the second war began in March, American forces used Prince Sultan to enforce a "no-fly zone" over southern Iraq that was designed to deny Saddam's forces flight rights in the region.
Then, at the height of the second Iraq war, US military personnel at Prince Sultan Air Base numbered more than 5000, with about 200 warplanes flying missions from the facility, according to the Air Force.
A skeletal crew of a few hundred is to remain and U.S. military personnel will continue training with Saudi forces and holding joint exercises, officials said.
The base became the center of the U.S. presence in the country in 1997 after the Khobar Towers bombing that killed 19 airmen and injured 400 others.
The Defense Department has invested large sums in a state-of-the-art air command center south of the Saudi capital. It was completed just before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and was used to coordinate the air campaign against the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.
The U.S.-Saudi agreement on U.S. withdrawal was made April 29 — a day before President Bush declared major combat over in Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said at that time that the work done at Prince Sultan air base was being shifted to al-Udeid air base in Qatar.
Even before the Iraq war, the Air Force was closing out operations at Incirlik air base in southern Turkey, which U.S. and British planes used to launch no-fly zone patrols over northern Iraq.
Rumsfeld has been looking at other basing changes throughout the world. Officials also are looking at reducing the number of air and ground forces kept on large permanent bases hosted by allies such as Germany and South Korea.
U.S. and South Korean officials last month agreed to go ahead with plans to transfer more defense responsibilities to South Korea and to move U.S. forces away from the demilitarized zone separating the country from North Korea. There are 37,000 U.S. troops stationed in the south.
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Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-08-28-ustroops-saudiarabia_x.htm |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
You are a Bum and you Suk wrote
| Quote: |
| Another is to get its troops out of SA. |
The US already removed them.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
| Quote: |
| Most of U.S. forces withdrawn from Saudi Arabia |
So, which is it? Have we removed them, or did we remove most of them? And if it is the latter, which of you is the "bum"? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Yu Bum,
with friends like you, it's a miracle the West still lives........
If only.....the Arabs/Muslims had people like you (assuming they wouldn't kill you/a GIGANTIC assumption to be sure).............
well then....we could all live in happy furry lovey peace.
But until folks like yourself, learn to see things with a bit of equanimity.......I am not optimistic. Call a spade a spade....one who intentionally blows up a busload of kids...as different from a soldeir performing his job....
(by the way equanimity does not translate to moral equivalance, in case you were confused)
If and (hopefully) when you achieve this moral breakthough....we can all look forward to a better tomorrow.
But as long as we have westerners, by the thousands, excusing suicide bombings/terrorist atrocities..........we will be stuck knee-deep in the mud. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: ... |
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First, we have this:
The AMERICAN PEOPLE have been vociferously in support of Israel for a long time and never more so than now.
And this:
Let's see, Israel or Saudi Arabia???? Israel or Syria??? Israel or Iran??
Then we have this:
Frankly, who really cares if the people in the Middle East like the US or not? International relations isn't a popularity contest.
There's an inherent contradiction there.
Not to mention the fact that Bush has pretty much beaten the AMERICAN PEOPLE shtick into the ground.
Do THE AMERICAN PEOPLE support Israel?
Given that many can't find Israel, Iraq, and sometimes Florida on a map, this is extremely dubious.
It's also worth noting that the majority of American Jews live in big cities, few in the rural red states.
Call me crass, but the AMERICAN PEOPLE seem far more anti-Arab/anti-Islam than they are pro-Israel.
Moving on, there is Bulsajo's question of how to disable a lobby. I don't think it can be done. The answer is disabling all lobbies.
Along those lines, I'd entertain the question of whether, if you could disable one single DC lobby, the pro-Israel one would be the best.
They are linked to the military-industrial complex, but are they, in a relative sense, the worst?
I think I'd take out the direct defense industry lobby first. Big business would probably also take precedence. And here you're talking numerous lobbies.
Bottom line: campaign finance reform.
Of course you're asking reps to vote against the hand that feeds them.
Here's a novel idea: unfreeze the size of the house of representatives. Doubling the size would make it cost twice as much for lobbies to buy peole off. Doubling would be a nice beginning...
The house size was frozen in 1911. How many lobbyists were there in DC back then?
Spread out the power to reflect the spread of our population.
There's an idea. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
Yu Bum,
with friends like you, it's a miracle the West still lives........
If only.....the Arabs/Muslims had people like you (assuming they wouldn't kill you/a GIGANTIC assumption to be sure)............. [ |
| Quote: |
If and (hopefully) when you achieve this moral breakthough....we can all look forward to a better tomorrow.
But as long as we have westerners, by the thousands, excusing suicide bombings/terrorist atrocities..........we will be stuck knee-deep in the mud. |
As long as we have you and the rest of the Hee-Haw cast telling us how to handle "dem A-rabs", there's really only one option: a whole lotta war. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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more supreme adeptness
of moral equivalancy.....
displayed by young anti-western westerners...
if only our enemies were satisfied with simple verbal jousts,...
sadly their understanding of the issues is much more existential. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: ... |
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more supreme adeptness
of moral equivalancy.....
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Apparently those are some big words for you. Make sure you can handle them
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| displayed by young anti-western westerners... |
before you start speaking for "the West", much less making assumptions about your detractors
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if only our enemies were satisfied with simple verbal jousts,...
sadly their understanding of the issues is much more existential. |
and assuming that your blunt, violent "understanding" of the world is the only option and that people who disagree with you are supporting evil/terrorism and can be obfuscated in verbosity.
But go ahead. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Christopher Hitchens has written a critique of Mearsheimer and Walt's study:
http://www.slate.com/id/2138741/?nav=tap3
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It's slightly hard to understand the fuss generated by the article on the Israeli lobby produced by the joint labors of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt that was published in the London Review of Books. My guess is that the Harvard logo has something to do with it, but then I don't understand why the doings of that campus get so much media attention, either.
The essay itself, mostly a very average "realist" and centrist critique of the influence of Israel, contains much that is true and a little that is original. But what is original is not true and what is true is not original.
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Great article, thanks for posting it. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
You are a Bum and you Suk wrote
| Quote: |
| Another is to get its troops out of SA. |
The US already removed them.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
| Quote: |
| Most of U.S. forces withdrawn from Saudi Arabia |
So, which is it? Have we removed them, or did we remove most of them? And if it is the latter, which of you is the "bum"? |
The vast majoriy of them have been removed.
You mean that Bin Laden is now only made about soldiers training Saudi forces?
He was talkng about the large force that was there to contain Saddam and the vast majority of those soldiers have left.
He is the bum but not the only one Bob. Hey Bob do you still smoke cigarettes? |
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Porter_Goss
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: The Wrong Side of Right
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
You are a Bum and you Suk wrote
| Quote: |
| Another is to get its troops out of SA. |
The US already removed them.
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
| Quote: |
| Most of U.S. forces withdrawn from Saudi Arabia |
So, which is it? Have we removed them, or did we remove most of them? And if it is the latter, which of you is the "bum"? |
The vast majoriy of them have been removed.
You mean that Bin Laden is now only made about soldiers training Saudi forces?
He was talkng about the large force that was there to contain Saddam and the vast majority of those soldiers have left.
He is the bum but not the only one Bob. Hey Bob do you still smoke cigarettes? |
It's an offense against Islam (this is Osama bin Laden speaking not me) for any foreign military presence in Saudi Arabia. |
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