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BBC declares everythings OK with Islam now!
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Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: ...

Cheers to two excellent points on this thread:

Bulsajo:

Quote:

And there is no escaping the fact that there are no practical ways of dealing with terrorism that do not involve interacting and cooperating with Muslim countries, and having Muslims as allies.

and Jaganath:

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Let me ask you something. Are women not oppressed in Christian countries too? Developing African countries, South American ones? The Philippines? How come you are only concerned about the ones in Islamic countries?

Cheers.

-NM

rapier

Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:53 am Post subject:

[quote="jaganath69"]

Quote:

You support the destruction of private property

You are oversimplifying. I support the preservation of public property, our natural environment. I support the destruction of private property in the hands of a greedy few who despoil the earth for their own short term gain.

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Not that you'd ever have the cahones to do something like that yourself.

I was waiting for this Laughing

I'm not going to post details and proof for you on here for obvious reasons. But I have definitely committed an act relating to the aforementioned, although not in this country.
How about, you get the cahones to spread the word among your fellow muslims that honor killings and sentencing Christian converts to death is wrong, against a verse in the quran?

Quote:

Entire communities, formerly functional towns where people worked becoming welfare-dependant methvilles because Mr Rainbow Warrior would rather watch a species of rare amoeba fornicate

-Your lack of knowledge is truly pitiful.
Believe it or not, it is possible for people to live with the earth without destroying it. The price of man prospering need not be the destruction of all else.

Quote:

OK, so by your logic the murder of women and children is so all pervasive in Islamic societies that nothing else is worth mentioning about them?

Its very pervasive. Yes. Female babies are strangled at birth: girls killed by brothers and fathers for slightest percieved "disobedience". Woman are totally subjugated..lower than domestic animals..in many muslim countries.

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Are women not oppressed in Christian countries too?

You mean like Britain and the US? Get real Laughing

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How come you are only concerned about the ones in Islamic countries?

It troubles me in any country. But Islam is growing and spreading. And the ritualised, socially acceptable, nay Koran- ordained abuse of women goes with it everywhere.

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Again you show what a complete ignoramus you are

tell me, are you actually blind, or just wilfully ignorant?

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incapable of seeing the world in any other colour than black and white. It would be fun to make a list of all the ludicrous $hite you have posted on here over the years, but frankly, you aint worth the effort.

I would say that converting to Islam in order to marry someone, has made you incapable of admitting the dangers and obvious injustices inherent in that religion.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:54 am Post subject:

dulouz wrote:

McViegh is a patriot. I'd like to see a statue up sometime and a national holiday.

This is your brain on drugs.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:02 am Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

Well, whenever one mentions muslim terrorism to a liberal, the liberal will find it hard not to blurt out "buh what about Oklahoma City".

It is like the exception that proves a point. Pulling at strings.

Bin Laden isn't a fascist. He is a religious terrorist.

Not a fascist? What does he want to do to those of other faiths?

Fighting for the Caliphate like the Nazis wanted to bring together all the Germanic peoples.

Quote:

fas��cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism

laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:43 am Post subject:

rapier wrote:

Quote:

Are women not oppressed in Christian countries too?

You mean like Britain and the US? Get real Laughing

Yo, do you know how many women are killed by abusive husbands or boyfriends every year? Do you know how many women are forced to go to a shelter (like the YWCA) on a weekly basis to hide from their abusive partners? Times those number by a factor of atleast 10 and that is how many women don't go to shelters because they are so afraid or honestly don't know any better and think things are alright. I don't know about Britain, but North America still has a lot of women who are abused and killed. And society still turns a blind eye. The biggest difference between Christian society and Muslim society is acceptance. That is why I think Muslim society is worse (if I had to compare the two). My friend took women's studies in uni and I followed along, and guess where most of this woman abuse happens. In all of the most "religious" areas of North America.

Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: ...

Um, in order to be nationalist, you need to have a nation. It's hard to be faschist without that. You repeatedly cite the Caliphate. I assume you mean the Ottoman Empire. What is your source on this? Who says bin Laden is trying to re-establih the Ottoman Empire? And, honestly, let's do this in one thread, who wants to re-establsh the Caliphate? I DO believe you respect me in a way, but your statements about a caliphate trying to regain power are tantamount to your assaults on conspiracy theorists. Gopher doesn't cite the Caliphate. Why not?

jaganath69

Joined: 17 Jul 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:36 am Post subject:

[quote="rapier"]

jaganath69 wrote:

Quote:

You support the destruction of private property

Quote:

Not that you'd ever have the cahones to do something like that yourself.

I was waiting for this Laughing

Quote:

Entire communities, formerly functional towns where people worked becoming welfare-dependant methvilles because Mr Rainbow Warrior would rather watch a species of rare amoeba fornicate

Quote:

OK, so by your logic the murder of women and children is so all pervasive in Islamic societies that nothing else is worth mentioning about them?

Quote:

Are women not oppressed in Christian countries too?

You mean like Britain and the US? Get real Laughing

Quote:

How come you are only concerned about the ones in Islamic countries?

It troubles me in any country. But Islam is growing and spreading. And the ritualised, socially acceptable, nay Koran- ordained abuse of women goes with it everywhere.

Quote:

Again you show what a complete ignoramus you are

tell me, are you actually blind, or just wilfully ignorant?

Quote:

I would say that converting to Islam in order to marry someone, has made you incapable of admitting the dangers and obvious injustices inherent in that religion.

1. You act as judge, jury and executioner. In most countries there are legal and legislative means to challenge things like this. You chose to act in a criminal manner, despite your thinking you were acting in the greater good. I, as most people would rather that you did not engage in vandalism in our name. You think you are Rosa bloody Parks, yet you are nothing but a degenerate anarchist.

2. My lack of knowledge is based on sound economic principles, basic ones at that. The fact that people can't make a living out of nothing. The fact that when principled idiots like yourself do things, that others suffer. You have a vision of the world, you are entitled to it. Doesn't make it right. Tell you what, I have a big 8 cylinder Holden at home in Aus. Belches smoke and used leaded fuel up until recently. Leaks a lot of oil too. Come try and blow it up, I'll shoot you between your silly looking eyes.

3. Abuse is spreading in Islam. OK. Do you have facts to back this up? Comparative statistics showing that rates of domestic violence across the Muslim world would be a good start. Basing assumptions on news snippets is not. Any social researcher knows that. I'm not denying it exists, mind you, but you've made a claim and yet fail to back it up. Its the basis of any decent social research. Again, you have shown you have the ability of a downs syndrome baby when it comes to such basic academic principles as methodology. Where the hell did you get your degree from? Better still, who told you it was a license to go sprouting all manner of nonsense?

4. I'm Muslim name only. I have a piece of paper that says I am one, but I take it with about as much seriousness as I took the Anglican faith I was born into. I drink. I don't do Ramadahn. I've prayed once at the Mosque. Furthermore, I was in Indonesia again recently (what you derisively called one of my 'holidays') and it just happened to coincide with the cartoon incident. I spent a great amount of time arguing the cause for freedom of speech, no matter how offensive with pretty much any Muslim who commented on the matter. My Uncle agreed with me, and he's a pretty pious dude. I also made some pretty impassioned arguments against local juristicitions in Sumatra and Java who have attempted to undermine Indonesia's secular constitution by introducing Sharia law selectively and by force. That's a secular constitution written for the most part by Javanese Muslims, btw, not that you would know nor care less for the subtelties in cases like this. As for my marriage, mention it at your peril, G, I don't mind the personal attacks against myself, hell I dish out a lot of flack too, but anything involving my wife is a no no. Suffice to say she is as secular as me.

5. The Christian world doesn't begin or end in the UK and US. What about deeply religious Zaire, Philippines, Bolivia, Mexico et al. Even if you throw in your dodgy "they're Catholic" curveball, you still come out as an @ss because it shows how selectively you pick your case studies when cornered.

So in conclusion you are a hypocrite, claiming to uphold the western liberal notion of property, but only selectively when it suits your political agenda. You are also someone who lacks the brains that God gave goats, capable of making broad sweeping statements but unable to back them up, unless its with another of your bible prophesy sites. You are also sadly deluded in thinking that I am religious to the point of bias and don't actively challenge the nuttier assumptions of my adopted religion on a regular basis. You are also a Christian zealot whose pathetic attempts at enlightening the discourse on this forum attract little sympathy and are risable to say the least. You are lucky that this forum is a notorious lair of dingbats and tinfoil helmet wearers because you are in fine company here, my friend.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:57 am Post subject:

Quote:

Do you know how many women are forced to go to a shelter (like the YWCA) on a weekly basis to hide from their abusive partners?

I suggest you do some research. Talk to some people that run battered women's homes in France, the UK and the Netherlands, and they will tell you that a grossly disproportionate number of women in such homes are Muslims.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:03 am Post subject:

Quote:

Who says bin Laden is trying to re-establih the Ottoman Empire?

Ummm.....Bin Laden? As he has stated on numerous occasions in many of his speeches. Or perhaps you think he just wants the the Americans to leave Iraq and Saudi.

Chamberlain thought Hitler would be happy with the Sudetenland.

The Lemon

Joined: 11 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:05 am Post subject:

Bulsajo wrote:

Bullseye.
I've said pretty much the same thing in PMs.
Right Lemon? [doubt that he wastes much time around here anymore...]

It really has descended into parody.

jaganath69 wrote:

This forum is a notorious lair of dingbats.

Well, the Mcveigh=patriot thing did polevault across the line separating the authentic raving nutbar from the highly skilled troll.

Cheers to you and Bulsajo for being ambassadors representing The Sane here at the Current Events asylum. But, your rational and thoughtful posts notwithstanding, here's hoping the moderators can get Dave Sperling to add a "refund the 15 minutes of my life I just wasted" button to the top of this thread, just below "report this thread to a moderator".

Lemon, in Deepest Islamic World

jaganath69

Joined: 17 Jul 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:08 am Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

Quote:

Do you know how many women are forced to go to a shelter (like the YWCA) on a weekly basis to hide from their abusive partners?

You're only running on anecdotal evidence there, it would be hard to disprove your case as I am sure that such facilities don't keep track of the ethnicity or religion of the people they help. I could speak anecdotally as well, having heard horror stories about spousal abuse in India. Does this mean that Hindus are out of touch with modernity too?

rapier

Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: Re: ...

Nowhere Man wrote:

You repeatedly cite the Caliphate. I assume you mean the Ottoman Empire.

What is your source on this?

Who says bin Laden is trying to re-establih the Ottoman Empire?

He did. (Bin laden that is).
-As well as a host of captured terrorists over the decades. Hijackers from the 70's were going on about their dream of the caliphate long before osama came into view. Its established, accepted fact. Openly espoused by terrorist themselves. No biggie. Old news.

"Current goal is to establish a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world by working with allied Islamic extremist groups to overthrow regimes it deems non-Islamic".
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm

rapier

Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:00 am Post subject:

[quote="jaganath69"]

Quote:

Comparative statistics showing that rates of domestic violence across the Muslim world would be a good start.

-And well you know that the very nature of these societies ensure that it goes unreported. A woman stands to be killed for so much as going to the police, or complaining to a relative. If you really are so naiive, then I'll be delighted to post up some reading material for you. Maybe start a whole new thread if you want.I thought you'd been on here for a while?

Quote:

As for my marriage, mention it at your peril, G, I don't mind the personal attacks against myself, hell I dish out a lot of flack too, but anything involving my wife is a no no.

You were the one who started the whole idea of examining someones personal motives for their opinions. Its Ok for others but not you?

Quote:

Even if you throw in your dodgy "they're Catholic" curveball,

Dude its common knowledge on here that I don't regard Catholicism as true Christianity.My own opinion. This has been long established on here in numerous threads. Its not a sudden turn around.

The difference is that a good Christian believes it is wrong to beat, strangle or stab women (including your own sisters), -while a good muslim believes its right. And his society, religion, family obligations will urge him to, and reward him for doing it.

Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:47 am Post subject:

rapier wrote:

Terrorism against bulldozers, and the disabling of factories that pump pollutants into our rivers. GASP!

Nice try but no cigar, you wingnut;
Nobody here has forgotten your comments about Native Americans and your belief of their right to commit terror to force Europeans to 'go back home'.

It ranks very high in "craziest things ever heard on Dave's" right up there with "Timothy McVeigh is a patriot and an American hero" so it's very apropos that it resurfaces here.

rapier

Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:55 am Post subject:

Bulsajo wrote:

Nobody here has forgotten your comments about Native Americans and your belief of their right to commit terror to force Europeans to 'go back home'.

Ah, I see.. But you thought it was fine for blacks to do to whites in Africa.
When I see the pigeons coming home to roost in the west now, i know you have only yourselves to blame.Betraying your allies and welcoming your enemies into your countries, doesn't bode well for the future.

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