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| On Independent Counsels... |
| They Are Fine As Is |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
| We Need to Rethink and Modify The Way They Work As They Are Politicized |
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75% |
[ 6 ] |
| They Tend to Lead to Witch Hunts and Should Be Eliminated from the System |
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12% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: On Independent Counsels... |
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Independent Counsel investigations of Presidents a la Ken Starr. How do you feel about them and why?
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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But congress is piss-poor at investigating. An independent counsel would be a useful tool if changes were made to make it difficult for it to run amok. Limiting with some of the limitations placed on regular DA's would help, as would limiting their scope. They should be able to expand the scope of their investigations only with some sort of oversight, perhaps a panel of judges or going to a Federal judge for additional expansion... a further grand jury or some such?
Perhaps a simple solution would be to place a set of "DAs" under the aegis of the Supreme Court to handle such things. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, the poll forgot to give the option of allowing them more authority than at present ... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Are they really still around? I was under the impression that the statute was allowed to lapse after the Kenneth Starr debacle. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| Are they really still around? I was under the impression that the statute was allowed to lapse after the Kenneth Starr debacle. |
| Quote: |
Independent counsel law fades into history
June 29, 1999
Web posted at: 6:12 p.m. EDT (2212 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, June 29) -- The independent counsel law, created as part of post-Watergate reforms but a target of increasing criticism over the years, will expire Wednesday.
Before the act was signed into law in 1978 by President Jimmy Carter, the president alone appointed special prosecutors to investigate allegations of wrongdoing against high-ranking government officials. After the so-called Saturday Night Massacre during the Watergate scandal -- where two top government officials resigned rather than carry out President Richard Nixon's demand the special prosecutor Archibald Cox be fired -- Congress was convinced the executive branch could not be trusted to impartially investigate its own.
"After Watergate, we decided that we wanted to have someone independent, someone to come in on horseback and solve our problems for us, someone outside the system," Sen. Fred Thompson (R-Tennessee) explains.
But support for the law waned after one counsel after another was named during the Carter, Reagan, Bush and Clinton administrations. Even current independent counsel Kenneth Starr, a target of a wave of recent criticism over the powers of the office, favors the law's demise.
Former Independent Counsel Arthur Christy agrees. In testimony before Congress, Christy said, "I was a bit of a piker, I think, because I completed my investigation in six months and it only cost $180,000." Christy investigated Carter White House Chief of Staff Hamilton Jordan on allegations of drug use.
Critics also argue that independent counsels cost too much for so little result.
Donald Smaltz spent $15 million investigating $35,000 worth of gifts to Clinton Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy. Espy was acquitted, but not until well after he was forced to resign.
"If our investigations and prosecutions dissuade corporations from giving gifts to their regulators and the regulators from accepting gifts from those who are regulated, I believe that the costs we have incurred are worth the price," Smaltz said.
In 1988, the law was tested in the federal court system but upheld by the Supreme Court. Justice Antonin Scalia, the only dissenter, criticized the law, saying it unconstitutionally gave too much power to the independent counsels who were politically unaccountable.
After Republicans complained in 1988 that Independent Counsel Lawrence Walsh was abusing the law during his seven-year Iran-Contra investigation, Congress let the law lapse for 18 months in the early 1990s.
With the law's expiration, the Justice Department stands poised to take over the job of appointing special prosecutors. Attorney General Janet Reno told reporters that the regulations will be ready by July 1.
Of the 20 independent counsel investigations launched, Starr's is one of five that are still active. Seven resulted in indictments and five led to at least one criminal conviction, although some of those were overturned on appeal. |
http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/29/independent.counsel/
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: ... |
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Well, Goph,
Realize this is not your PHD, but a web board.
It could be helpful.
Are you making a fair poll, or one that just serves your point of view?
Your poll choices are a pretty clear indicator.
It's like asking this:
Is EFL Trainer a good contributer to this board?
A) Yes
B) No. He's an anti-US, hippy communist traitor.
Is this the BEST poll you can make? You might have a bit of growing up to do before you do PhD research.
I realize that that may be a bit insulting to you, but I think you should take it to heart.
Someone who creates high-school lunchroom polls will not be capable of accurate research.
But feel free to disgree with me. Is the poll you created above balanced and fair?
Do answer. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Well, Goph,
Realize this is not your PHD, but a web board.
Is this the BEST poll you can make? . |
That's probably why he made the poll the way he did. It's not a PhD.
It's a web board. Lighten up.
Man some people take this board TOO seriously. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Are you making a fair poll, or one that just serves your point of view?
Your poll choices are a pretty clear indicator.
It's like asking this:
Is EFL Trainer a good contributer to this board?
A) Yes
B) No. He's an anti-US, hippy communist traitor.
|
 Thank you for a good chuckle! |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Are you making a fair poll, or one that just serves your point of view?
Your poll choices are a pretty clear indicator.
It's like asking this:
Is EFL Trainer a good contributer to this board?
A) Yes
B) No. He's an anti-US, hippy communist traitor.
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I vote for A, though I did have long hair and dream of being a a rock star for most of my youth. Never did drugs, though.
I do believe that, were it possible on a national/global scale, the ideal of perfect equality, perfectly equal power and perfectly equal economic status would be good. But I also believe it's not in human nature to live that way, so you may as well spit in the wind rather than attempt it. Ask the Russians and the Chinese. However, the current best is still highly flawed. Individual rights vs. society as a whole. The eternal problem.
BTW, did I miss something? Why are references to me popping up? |
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