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| Is illegal immigration a problem? |
| Yes, it's definately a problem |
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47% |
[ 16 ] |
| No, it's not a problem |
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14% |
[ 5 ] |
| It's only a problem to bigots |
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23% |
[ 8 ] |
| Kick em' all out and sort it out later! |
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14% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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 Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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i don't think it's a problem.
it's mostly a "problem" to ppl who live on the mexican boarder and think that they are being 'overrun'.
actually we get a lot of illegal immigration coming in from canada and other european countries.
i don't have a problem with someone coming here and trying to make an honest living. even if we were to build a 30ft tall steel wall around our southern and northern borders, there would still be crime; there would still be racial issues.
ppl have always been moaning about immigration, first it was the germans polluting our shores, then the east europeans, now hispanics and asians. too many people want to create some idealized WASP america where ppl magically get along because they are cut of the same stock.
as for any arguments to language, most immigrants coming to the US want to learn english, but they also want to preserve their native language. there's nothing wrong with that. by the 3rd generation, most of the ancestrial country language is replaced totally with english. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Yo!Chingo wrote: |
Ya Ta Boy: "Xenophobia is not an attractive quality here in Korea. It is no more attractive at home."
I am anything but a xenophobe. I'm simply an American that feels strongly about immigration and the consequences it will have on my country. |
Unfortunately for you, every time this issue comes up and an analysis is done of the impact of immigration, it always comes out positive overall.
Glad I could help.... |
Doesn't look like helping to me. You're looking at analysis done for fairly constant and sometimes spiked immigration rates over history right? Well if you ask the average American in most small towns how many latino ethnics were in his/her county 10 years ago and how many are there now I bet he'd/she'd say," TOO MANY". We're being drowned out by immigrants illegal and legal.
I honestly have no problem with controlled immigration. The key word here is CONTROLLED. I do have a problem when I see the entire fabric of my country changing b/c of a criminal element and our resources being taxed to the extent of very real breakdowns in some State's school and healthcare systems.
I and my husband are taxpayers giving Uncle Sam around 30+% of our earned income to help support these services. I am therefore a CUSTOMER of these services. I paid for them! These illegals didn't... If I go into a McDonalds and I see that the guy in front of me just got a free Happy meal for his kid and i have a kid, I say give me the free happy meal too!
Try that crap in Mexico or on of those other countries and see where it lands ya!!! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
They want to do much more than what you assume and suggest here.
Have you ever noticed that these protestors usually carry Mexican flags, many Mexican flags?
Which might be a confusing point, right? Do they want to immigrate, make a home here, and become Americans, or do they really want something else?
Have you heard the kinds of things people who agitate for "Aztlan" and "the silent reconquest" are saying, by the way?
Are you sure that these people are so without guile and so full of virtue? |
it's that kind of xenophobia which messes up our country.
mexicans are not going to "overrun us". why are they carrying mexican flags? i dunno. maybe they are doing it to show their country of origin. maybe they are doing it because they feel like it.
you'd have to ask them, not me.
sorry, but, again, hispanics are not going to take over america.
and if we get more hispanics in america, who cares? i don't care.
the thought of peoples (hispanics/asians) coming into america with their foreigness and changing our lives is laughable.
these aren't my assumptions, but the words of the people themselves.
extensive interviews with immigrants (illegal & legal) shows that on the whole they want the same things: a safe environment & good education for their kids, the ability to work hard for their money and such.
read 'guarding the golden gates', i think it's a pretty balanced look at immigration in america. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
They want to do much more than what you assume and suggest here.
Have you ever noticed that these protestors usually carry Mexican flags, many Mexican flags?
Which might be a confusing point, right? Do they want to immigrate, make a home here, and become Americans, or do they really want something else?
Have you heard the kinds of things people who agitate for "Aztlan" and "the silent reconquest" are saying, by the way?
Are you sure that these people are so without guile and so full of virtue? |
it's that kind of xenophobia which messes up our country.
mexicans are not going to "overrun us". why are they carrying mexican flags? i dunno. maybe they are doing it to show their country of origin. maybe they are doing it because they feel like it.
you'd have to ask them, not me.
sorry, but, again, hispanics are not going to take over america.
and if we get more hispanics in america, who cares? i don't care.
the thought of peoples (hispanics/asians) coming into america with their foreigness and changing our lives is laughable.
these aren't my assumptions, but the words of the people themselves.
extensive interviews with immigrants (illegal & legal) shows that on the whole they want the same things: a safe environment & good education for their kids, the ability to work hard for their money and such.
read 'guarding the golden gates', i think it's a pretty balanced look at immigration in america. |
Hey Little Mixed Girl...check out these 2 websites and tell me again how innocent these Latinos are. Self righteous and totally ignorant of the power America has, these people are in for a rude awakening. Then again are they ignorant or just stupid? I haven't figured it out...tryin' though. I got a gun waiting for each and everyone of them if they do what they plan, and I'm Southern. I know how to use it.
http://www.aztlan.net/
http://www.pnlru.org/ |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| little mixed girl wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
They want to do much more than what you assume and suggest here.
Have you ever noticed that these protestors usually carry Mexican flags, many Mexican flags?
Which might be a confusing point, right? Do they want to immigrate, make a home here, and become Americans, or do they really want something else?
Have you heard the kinds of things people who agitate for "Aztlan" and "the silent reconquest" are saying, by the way?
Are you sure that these people are so without guile and so full of virtue? |
it's that kind of xenophobia which messes up our country.
mexicans are not going to "overrun us". why are they carrying mexican flags? i dunno. maybe they are doing it to show their country of origin. maybe they are doing it because they feel like it.
you'd have to ask them, not me.
sorry, but, again, hispanics are not going to take over america.
and if we get more hispanics in america, who cares? i don't care.
the thought of peoples (hispanics/asians) coming into america with their foreigness and changing our lives is laughable.
these aren't my assumptions, but the words of the people themselves.
extensive interviews with immigrants (illegal & legal) shows that on the whole they want the same things: a safe environment & good education for their kids, the ability to work hard for their money and such.
read 'guarding the golden gates', i think it's a pretty balanced look at immigration in america. |
Hey Little Mixed Girl...check out these 2 websites and tell me again how innocent these Latinos are. Self righteous and totally ignorant of the power America has, these people are in for a rude awakening. Then again are they ignorant or just stupid? I haven't figured it out...tryin' though. I got a gun waiting for each and everyone of them if they do what they plan, and I'm Southern. I know how to use it. 
http://www.aztlan.net/
http://www.pnlru.org/ |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| a criminal element |
I asked once. I'll ask again. Why this insistence on calling them criminals? |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| a criminal element |
I asked once. I'll ask again. Why this insistence on calling them criminals? |
Ok let's define the word "Criminal" shall we? Criminal: someone who has commited a crime. Ok now let's look up the word "Crime". Crime: an act punishable by law. Hmmmmm...I think that illegals are people who are commiting an act punishable by law which makes them CRIMINALS.
You want justification Ya-ta Boy? There's your justification. |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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there are many things that have not been touched upon that are important.
1) all immigrants are NOT created equal. The problem is NOT with immigration but with illiterate, uneducated, low skilled mexicans having such easy access to america.
educated, well-off, or skilled immigrants, especially those that have studied in the hard sciences are a boon to the economy. we should be hard on those that contribute nothing, and make it easy for those that would make america a more productive place.
2) the problem lies with citizenship at birth. that way you get sneaky, SNEAKY people from mexico to south korea that find a way to have a baby in the us, take them back (or stay and live off the dole) contribute nothing, and then use their child to bring everyone from halmoni to abuelito.
3) the problem also does not lie 100% with the first generation illegal immigrants. as illegals they tend to pay taxes while collecting no government benefits from it. free money! the problem comes from the citizenship at birth policy. once these people have their babies in the us, the children feel a huge sense of entitlement as americans to collect what their parents did not. somehow, the sense of their parents work ethic is gone. the illegal mexicans are ok...their children get all the benefits and are still low-skilled , poor, and uneducated like their parents.
4) this weird sense of _____/american. these 2-3-4- generation mexicans still feel this sense of pride and love for a foreign country that did NOTHING for them and a sense of entitlment to contribute nothing and take take take from america, which has provided them with everything.
5) vicente fox is more than happy to rid himself of the worst part of the mexican population. not like he can employ them. he wil do nothing to help out the us with this situation and is taking a vicitim stance to placate his population
anyway, the solution is to stop the birth by citizenship and start the citizenship by merit (earnings, degree, vocation...etc). once there is an incentive to actually make something out of yourself in order to become an american, people will follow that trend, insetad of crapping out babies so i can pay for their jail time in 18 years. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I'll respond to my Tim McVeigh comments. I think the OK city bombing was OK. Yea, I don't have much of a problem with it. The Fed is trying to end America and they are doing a bang up job. If all of those Fed workers were out in the field rounding up illegal immigrants, they wouldn't have gotten hurt. Here's what Fed malfeasance toward us gets us...
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Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:
• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.
• The leadership of the Columbia Lil�� Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.��s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.
Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis. The LAPD and the L.A. city attorney recently requested an injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood, targeting the 18th Street Gang and the ��non–gang members�� who sell drugs in Hollywood for the gang. Those non–gang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the country by a ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The Mexicans pay off their transportation debts to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business.
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They lie - we die.
Family have "value" too
| Quote: |
Migrants sneaking illegally into the United States from countries other than Mexico are renting families -- mostly small children -- to ensure that if they are apprehended, they won't be deported, but released back into the United States, a top immigration official said yesterday.
The "rent-a-family" scheme, said John P. Torres, director of the Office of Detention and Removal at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), is being used by alien smugglers along the U.S.-Mexico border -- mainly in Texas -- to circumvent a new expedited-removal program for non-Mexican aliens, whose arrest under existing deportation policies had become known as "catch-and-release."
"They are passing themselves off as a family, paying to have children smuggled with them across the border, because the smugglers know we're not going to break up a family for the deportation process," Mr. Torres said. "They're renting babies -- the younger the better -- including those not yet of speaking age.
"They get processed as a family and released together, under the law, pending an immigration hearing," Mr. Torres said.
He said the cost to the migrants for renting a family is in the "thousands of dollars" -- in addition to the $1,500 to $2,000 they are paying per person to be taken across the border.
Mr. Torres said the children are being rented out by families along the border, and authorities are not sure how they are being returned after crossing into the United States. But, he said, some of the children are being rented more than once.
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Charming. The illegals should do the honorable thing, they should just leave. If we tell them to, even with new laws, I don't think they would.
This is the kind of people they are. "Give us what we want or we storm you". They play coy but its just enough chicken to make the game last a little longer. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Ok let's define the word "Criminal" shall we? |
So you've never driven over the speed limit? Had a couple of beers and driven home?
I'd venture to guess you are a low-down slimey scofflaw like everyone else. Your position is to selectively enforce the law. Your moral outrage is not very convincing. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Ok let's define the word "Criminal" shall we? |
So you've never driven over the speed limit? Had a couple of beers and driven home?
I'd venture to guess you are a low-down slimey scofflaw like everyone else. Your position is to selectively enforce the law. Your moral outrage is not very convincing. |
Moral outrage? You haven't seen moral outrage...and no Ya-Ta I've never driven home inebriated or anywhere near. I know the pain that DWI's cause to all involved. But as for Latino's...Haaaa just ask them if it's legal!!! I bet they'll said "Jes it's legal! Same as in my beloved Mexico." As for the speed limit thing...no comment. Never caught is all I'm saying. I don't like the thought though that you put driving a few miles over the speed limit on the same level as illegal immigration. That's like comparing an grape to a watermelon. One of these is much more detrimental to the fabric of my country! |
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IchiTK
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Location: on my way...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Maybe we were too hasty in abolishing slavery. We could legalize it again, buy up unwanted kids in 3rd World countries at bargain prices, sterilize them so they don't grow up to have kids, and set them to work at picking fruit and the other low-paying jobs that we need done but aren't willing to pay much for. If that is too baldly racist, maybe we could go the Aldous Huxley route and inject alcohol into random fetus brains and make our own supply of happy workers. Either way, we'd take some of the hypocrisy out of the system. I'm only being about half facetious. |
I like your modest proposal. You're very swiftian on the uptake 
Seriously though, immigration is an incredibly complex issue, both internationally and domestically. In my opinion, there has to be some xenophobia at play in the OPs position, however unconscious. I say this because, in order to hold the view that underprivelaged laborers who risk their lives for the opportunity to work backbreaking jobs at less than minimum wage are "criminals" while overlooking US policies that enforce and maintain Latin America's dependant status, one must be looking at the world through at least slightly nationalist-tinged shades. ( I am unwilling to entertain the alternative possibility that the OP is undereducated.) |
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IchiTK
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Location: on my way...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
There has not been one example that I have been shown so far of these jobs that is not important in anyway or vital to national interest.... The illegals have never done important work. Ever.
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Mexico has never been a nation of hard workers, thats why they are poor. They never ever grew up. Its easy to feel superior when your neighbor can only get drunk and fall over and has been doing so for over 50 years. |
Pardon me, but I found your post to be the most ill-informed, ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited thing I've read yet on this board, and that is saying something.
1. Building homes, roads, and office buildings do not contribute to the "national interest"? I suppose garbage disposal and sanitation are not really all that essential either. Not important work.
2. Having lived in Mexico for over a year ( I am writing this outraged reply from the heart of Mexico City) I can assure you that the average working-class Mexican is far more industrious and works longer hours than their US counterpart. Also, having known and worked with many Latin American immigrants of varying legal status over the years, I can attest the the fact that they are among the best workers I have ever had the privelage to meet.
If you have an informed, educated opinion on the issue I would love to hear it, but the neo-fascist rantings need to get stuffed back where they came from. Really. |
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