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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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On the other hand wrote:
It doesn't threaten me, at least not in the sense of "oh now I can't get to ogle all the women at the pool", as you seem to be implying.
Seem being the operable word. In fact I wasn't implying that you personally resented not being able to ogle females in the pool. I was just giving you quite valid reasons why woman might want to have female only swimming sessions, muslim or no muslim. |
Fair enough. I guess I was just wondering about how widespread a demand there actually is for female only swimming, apart from religious considerations. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Europe is capable of booting Christianity out the door after it being so bloody prevalent for a couple of millenia, I am sure they will be fine with Islam. |
What do you mean 'booting out the door'? I presume you mean how European society became effectively secularised over centuries, and church and state were separated. Personally, I'd rather not gamble the future of Europe, on the off-chance that Islam might reform itself, and stop preaching infidel hatred and Jihad.
How exactly will the French and the Dutch 'boot Islam out the door' when the have Muslim populations of 30-40%. Whether or not those immigrants actually want an Islamic state, by their mere presence they will utterly change the nature of Europe so that it will increasingly resemble Arabia and not Europe. In fact, such countries will increasingly resemble Bosnia, or perhaps Nigeria, with Arab speaking, Muslim inner cities, and White rural areas, as Whites flee the crime ridden and infidel hostile cities. This is not just a matter of Islamification, but the wholesale colonisation of vast swathes of urban Europe, by people who do not speak the same language or share the cultural mores of the host population. Malmo and Rotterdam are good indicators of how Europe will turn out if such trends are not reversed. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Europe is capable of booting Christianity out the door |
Christianity rests on faith, free choice by the individual. If europeans prefer to discard it, that is their right. They will reap the due rewards of doing so:
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| I am sure they will be fine with Islam. |
If they are happy to allow a gradual dhimmitude to take their choice and freedom from them, so be it.There are many, many other parts of the world that are gradually making the right choice. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
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| Europe is capable of booting Christianity out the door |
Christianity rests on faith, free choice by the individual. If europeans prefer to discard it, that is their right. They will reap the due rewards of doing so:
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| I am sure they will be fine with Islam. |
If they are happy to allow a gradual dhimmitude to take their choice and freedom from them, so be it.There are many, many other parts of the world that are gradually making the right choice. |
You really are a true Christian, leaving out information that doens't quite fit your argument. Quote the whole post.
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If Europe is capable of booting Christianity out the door after it being so bloody prevalent for a couple of millenia, I am sure they will be fine with Islam. It will get booted out too, just need a bit of time. |
Any fricken idiot could see that I meant we don't have to worry about Europe converting, it will boot Islam out too. This is the first time I have outright insulted someone (and gone down to that level) but you just happened to leave out one sentence of a 2 sentence post.
Did I mention you were an idiot! |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| And here, from Yahoo News, just to pour water over rapier's rush to allege that the current demonstrations in France are somehow to do with the North African immigrants: Why few young immigrants are protesting in Paris |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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From Rapier's link...
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| The forces of reason and science applied to social planning created this ��individual freedom�� by destroying the roles and expectations of traditional Western Cultures. Feminism was the hammer used to do much of this work, the irresistable call of equality for all. They replaced these structures and traditions with�� nothing. That��s the ��freedom�� part. You are free to be whatever you want to be. Whatever you want to be. Whether that be a new ��gender�� that is different than the sex you were born with. |
This is funny. On the one hand, the anti-Muslim crowd always holds feminism up as the defining aspect of western culture that makes it so superior to Islam. But when it comes to feminism in and of itself(as opposed to feminism as an example of why the west is better than Islam), suddenly feminism becomes this destructive force, corroding the very foundations of our society. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: |
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The destruction of social ��roles�� in the West, along with the dismissal of religion and religious values, has created a vast number of people who are adrift in society feeling as if they have no moorings or happiness. The movie Fight Club dramatizes these feelings increasingly common to what has become the Western way of life, the yearning for a real life with real connections to values and others, a shared sense of purpose, a move away from this obsession with meaningless materialistic things.
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Wow, Fight Club as a symbol for the decline of traditional institutions. How au courant.
So, anyone wanna talk about the how that dot-com boom is coming along? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| On the one hand, the anti-Muslim crowd always holds feminism up as the defining aspect of western culture that makes it so superior to Islam |
No, people who are critical of Islam hold up female equality as a (not the) defining aspect of Western culture. There is no contradiction between defending female equality and criticising what modern day feminism has become. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: ... |
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So, "modern day feminism" has totally and unequevicolly abandoned women's rights and is on to something else.
Based upon your statement, that is what I understand.
Am I right or wrong? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| So, "modern day feminism" has totally and unequevicolly abandoned women's rights and is on to something else. |
Feminism is all about 'women's rights', but it is rarely about equal rights and equal opportunity, just as 'anti-racism' is about minority rights and not equal opportunity. I am all for equality, but I against positive discrimination and the creation of oppressed 'victim groups'(who are rarely held accountable for anything), which both feminists and 'anti-racists' endorse. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: ... |
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Your statements suggest that feminism used to be OK, but now it's not.
Based upon your posts, that's what I understand.
Am I right or wrong? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Quote:
So, "modern day feminism" has totally and unequevicolly abandoned women's rights and is on to something else.
Verne wrote:
Feminism is all about 'women's rights', but it is rarely about equal rights and equal opportunity, just as 'anti-racism' is about minority rights and not equal opportunity. I am all for equality, but I against positive discrimination and the creation of oppressed 'victim groups'(who are rarely held accountable for anything), which both feminists and 'anti-racists' endorse.
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But Rapier's post doesn't crtiticize feminism for abandoing the pursuit of equality. It criticizes feminism for ever having pursued equality in the first place.
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The forces of reason and science applied to social planning created this ��individual freedom�� by destroying the roles and expectations of traditional Western Cultures. Feminism was the hammer used to do much of this work, the irresistable call of equality for all. They replaced these structures and traditions with�� nothing. That��s the ��freedom�� part. You are free to be whatever you want to be. Whatever you want to be. Whether that be a new ��gender�� that is different than the sex you were born with. Or something more common like access to professions previously closed to your race or sex or class��in theory. Or whether that means that you want to remain single, or not single but still childless, or single with a child. Whatever you want, anything you want to do. In theory.
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
This is funny. On the one hand, the anti-Muslim crowd always holds feminism up as the defining aspect of western culture that makes it so superior to Islam. But when it comes to feminism in and of itself(as opposed to feminism as an example of why the west is better than Islam), suddenly feminism becomes this destructive force, corroding the very foundations of our society. |
Funny, that.
Funny strange, not funnny "ha ha." |
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