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red headed stranger
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Hey Grammar fiends--Adverb question |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
Let's look back at the original question.
| krats1976 wrote: |
OK, here's the sentence:
So, while is the adverb that modifies the verb begin right? |
Whether you want to get complicated about sentence structure, "begin" is still a conjunction, not an adverb. It can be part of an adverb but not an adverb. |
Begin is an adverb in that sentence. It is modifies the verb grooming in the imperative statement. |
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Hey Grammar fiends--Adverb question |
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| red headed stranger wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
Let's look back at the original question.
| krats1976 wrote: |
OK, here's the sentence:
So, while is the adverb that modifies the verb begin right? |
Whether you want to get complicated about sentence structure, "begin" is still a conjunction, not an adverb. It can be part of an adverb but not an adverb. |
Begin is an adverb in that sentence. It is modifies the verb grooming in the imperative statement. |
You're joking right? |
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Billy Pilgrim
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Billy Pilgrim wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| Begin grooming your kitten and it is still young are both independent clauses that could stand alone as individual sentences, but are joined to create one sentence. The joining word is, thus, a conjunction. I could be wrong, but I think any word performing that role is a conjunction. |
The sentence contains an adverbial clause; the "while it is still young" being a dependent clause technically modifying the verb "begin" in the independent clause.
So, I guess the OP is technically correct. I think. |
"It is still young" is an independent clause. Qinella is right (and has a cute cat). |
No, it's not, because it's joined to "while", which makes it subordinate. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Hey Grammar fiends--Adverb question |
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| It's been submitted to http://www.painintheenglish.com, so we'll see what they say on there. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: |
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OK, so a bunch of teachers ask a grammar question, there's a post about function over form (because there's good evidence grammar teaching has little effect on acquisition, so function should trump) and nobody even gives it a thought...
And we wonder why... |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Thus, the FUNCTION of while in this sentence is as an adverb of time to tell us when to begin conditioning your pet to accept grooming. Anything else is purely academic, though not uninteresting. |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
OK, so a bunch of teachers ask a grammar question, there's a post about function over form (because there's good evidence grammar teaching has little effect on acquisition, so function should trump) and nobody even gives it a thought...
And we wonder why... |
Some of 'us' certainly agree with you, and 'we' have given it thought. My guess is that many of us who agree with you don't feel compelled to argue/post incessantly regarding the topic. (This is not meant to be slanderous toward you, or other posters, whatsoever, but rather, to provide a complimentary viewpoint.) |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| Begin grooming your kitten while it is still young. |
"Begin" is an imperative verb, implying you must or should do this, with an emphasis on it being important.
"grooming" is the direct object of "begin". It's also a gerund.
"Your" is a possesive pronoun
"Kitten" is the object of the verb acting as a gerund.
"While" is a subordinate conjunction, meaning that it subordinates the clause following, thus making that clause dependent, NOT INDEPENDENT. And, But, and Or (among the FANBOYS) are are the only coordinating conjunctions. They keep clauses independent.
Everything else (although, because, when, etc...) are subordinate.
"While it is still young" is an adverb clause, meaning that the clause as a whole functions like a single adverb (properly, kindly, quickly) would.
A clause is a group of words WITH a subject and a verb. If it lacks one or both, it s a phrase.
As for the teaching of grammar, most Korean students can teach their teachers more than the other way around.
Some elementary grammar teaching is a good idea. It's also good for "advanced" students who've dispensed with learning the importance of articles and punctuation.
On the other hand, we L1 speakers don't learn all of that clause stuff the way many try to teach it. Lexical theory seems a better approach:
Screw "rules", this is right, this wrong. Learn it.
Grammar was created by looking at what we do, not creating rules and then following them.
Prescriptive vs. Descriptive. Generative.
Introduce Chomsky.
Then cry. |
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